Army Specialist Ranks...Sp 4-9

Watching The Outer Limits marathon yesterday,noticed one of the guys had the rank of Spec 7. I only saw one SP 7 (a medical guy at Ft Bragg's Womack Army hospital in early '69) in the three years I was in...ending in Nov 71. Even SP 6 was unusual to see...SSG was much more common. There were sp4s/5s everywhere back then,even in the infantry. I thought the sp ranks were supposed to be for non combat fields. I never saw a sp8 or 9.

Some years ago,they dropped all but the E-4 rank of "Specialist". That seems to make less sense than the old days' usage of the non-stripe rankings. What's special about attaining the rank of E-4? Why not eliminate it?

Why was the Army seemingly so "goofy" about these ranks?

NCO ratings, corporals, sergeants, were on a very limited allocation, with just so many authorized in a TO & E unit. Not so with "specialists" ratings. Deserving soldiers could be promoted to higher pay grades without the corresponding increase in command status.

So it was explained to me.

Bob Wright

Spec 7 was as high as the "Specialist" grades went.... after that, E8 was either a Master Sergeant or First Sergeant (with a diamond above the rockers), and E9 was a Sergeant Major (with a star) or Command Sergeant Major (with a wreath around the star).

In WWII they had the Technician ranks, chevrons with a big T on them. A Tech 5 ranked below a Sergeant and above a Corporal. In 1958 Congress authorized two additional pay grades, E-8 and E-9, let each service distribute them as they saw fit. The original idea was that Specialists would be highly skilled technicians who would be recognized and paid accordingly but not strictly speaking NCOs, they would rank about PFC E-3 and below Corporal E-4, that idea quickly went nowhere, AFAIK no one was ever promoted to Spec 8 or Spec 9. I saw only one Spec 7. When I was in 1967-1971 the only branch that had corporals was Military Intelligence-? It was the WWII practice that Specialists ranked above the next lower pay grade and below a "hard rock" of the same pay grade. I recall I usually saw Spec 5s in mess halls, motor pools, clerical and admin units, etc.

Then again there are proposed ranks for wives! In pink obviously...

S-1. Spouse Recruit.
S-2. Spouse First Class.
S-3. Lance Spouse.
S-4. Spousalist.
S-5. Senior Spouse.
S-6. Technical Spouse.
S-7. Spouse Sergeant.
S-8. First Spouse.
S-9. Chief Master Spouse.

The USAF avoided all of that nonsense when it started with the USA. Then in the mid to late 70's they decided that obtaining the rank of E-4 Sergeant (which came about based on time in grade and time in service if you stayed out of trouble) allowed too may young and unqualified folks to become NCO's. Most folks hit E-4 Sergeant sometime in their first enlistment. They created the rank of E-4 Senior Airman. You could become an E-4 Sergeant by passing some leadership courses. Not sure what the difference, if any, there was in pay, but I believe you had to do the courses to reenlist. Fortunately for me this all came about well after I'd made E-5.

Truthfully, you didn't really do anything NCO'ish until you hit E-5 Staff Sergeant.

Sp4 was the worst rank. You were often expected to act like and function as an NCO but when it was time for scutwork you were just another body.
In typical Army fashion when they received the new pay grades they did al sorts of bizarre things. They added one pay grade at the bottom so you now had Private E-1 and Private E-2 but you didn't get your first stripe till you made Private First Class E-3. I knew one E-7 who quite adamant that his rank was not Sergeant First Class but Platoon Sergeant. Also the pay grades were reversed from WWII-in WWII a Private was an E-7, a Master Sergeant was an E-1. Then there were some NCOs who were a Staff Sergeant E-5 and Sergeant First Class E-6, in 1968 when the powers that be did away with that distinction they had to put on the chevrons of the pay grade they actually held, you saw people who had been "busted" when in reality they had done nothing wrong but were victims of an absurd administrative system.

The Specialist Ranks were a point of contention from their inception.

The differences were being hashed out, and ultimately decided in the early seventies. Specialist, as opposed to hard-stripe insignia was arbitrarily awarded, solely by the MOS you held when the rank was awarded. But even that was not always so! I was awarded the rank of Sp-5, while holding a slot of Senior Aircraft Armament mechanic, an E-6 Staff Sergeant slot, while simultaneously being the Production Control Supervisor for an Organizational maintenance unit, responsible for maintaining 27 helicopters. Later, when I attended another MOS school, Small Arms Repairman, the E-5 rank for that MOS was Sgt. So, I held both ranks at different times, Sgt and Spec-5.

In Army Aviation during my Vietnam-Era years, the Helicopter Technical Inspectors (TI) usually held the rank of Sp-5 or Sp-6. But we also had a TI that was a Staff Sergeant. Are you following this confusion? The Senior TI was a Spec-6, and at times he was the Platoon Sergeant. We had a younger Spec-5 that was promoted to E-6, and for whatever reason he was awarded Staff Sergeant rank. He immediately was placed as Platoon Sergeant, over the existing Spec-6 Platoon Sergeant. As an E-6, the Spec-6 TI had both more time, and time in grade than the newly promoted Staff Sergeant. The Spec-6 challenged this, and he won. The Army did decide that a Spec-6 with time in grade over a Staff Sergeant, outranked the Staff Sergeant. This decision is argued, misunderstood, and debated to this day.

Oh...And did I say I was also in the rotation of Sergeant of the Guard, and CQ, as a Spec-5?

So, I have 4 Honorable Discharges. One from the Regular Army, one from the Army Reserve, and two from the National Guard. One of them says I'm a Spec-5, the other three say I'm a Sergeant. Unfortunately, I already have a headstone in place in a National cemetery, atop my deceased minor daughter. And this headstone has my name as Sp-5, even though I was a Sergeant longer, and later, than I was a Spec-5.

None of it matters now, except there are Junior Corporals acting as supervisors over Senior Sp-4's. And tomorrow, that same Spec-4 could be transferred to a different slot, and then be a Corporal. The NCO training, while I was in was the same for the Specialist ranks as it was for the Sergeant ranks. Spec 5's and Sgt's went to the same NCO school. Further, during my time on any Post, any E-4 and above was allowed in any NCO Club, regardless of being a Specialist or a hard stripe.

The creation of the Specialist ranks created more problems than any problem it was supposed to overcome.

WAYNO.

I was always told that the Spec ranks were for those that had some sort of technical expertise that involved little or no chance of them performing direct supervisory roles. In my time at Bragg I never saw one above Spec 4 and most all of them were filling some sort of clerk or warehouseman position. I seem to remember our unit medics held Spec ranks also. Any time there were troops needing direct leadership, it was done by a hard stripe of some degree.

Gleaned from another post:
CMH awardee Lawrence Joel was a SP6 when he received that medal for his actions during Operation Hump in 1965. He was the first Medic from the Vietnam War and the first living black man to receive the CMH since the Spanish American War. He was a SP5 when he performed the acts that resulted in this award.......he retired with the rank of SFC.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrence_Joel

wwb said:

Spec 7 was as high as the "Specialist" grades went.... after that, E8 was either a Master Sergeant or First Sergeant (with a diamond above the rockers), and E9 was a Sergeant Major (with a star) or Command Sergeant Major (with a wreath around the star).

Click to expand...

I was s SP6 when I was stationed as a radar mechanic at a Nike Hercules site. Sorry to disagree but there was Sec 8 & 9 ranks. Didn't see many but they were possible.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Specialist_%28rank%29

All of which proves that civilians need to stay out of military ranking and promotions. Let's face it, it was mostly driven by attempts to pay folks less than they were really entitled to.

Yep, I was really wasn't entitled to the $147 dollars I got each month.

What I was told when I was in was ,
a spec 5 or whatever rank was specialized in a certain field .
An E5 or whatever rank " a hard stripe " as we called it , was a leader in all fields.

The old charts showed spec patches all the way to E9. Maybe most commands just decided to award stripes for E-8/9.

Does anyone recall ever seeing a sp8 or sp9 ?

Well, I was an Spec E-4 and essentially ran the commo shop because the Buck Sgt E-5 mostly NEVER showed up and spent MOST of time down in the village or NCO club; I had a friend that was an E-4 in the Air Force, more TIG than me; PO's him no end when I got put on the Standing promotion list for a boost to Buck Sgt E-5; If we hadn't got a new Battery Commander in, I would have come home a Sgt E-5 because we had a Spec E-5 that lost his stripe, the new CO** said he didn't know anybody and wasn't handing out any stripes ( We were a TO&E outfit). Shortly after they asked me if I wanted to Re-enlist, you can probably guess the hand sign I flashed them !!

** And This low life was a mustang that got promoted to the officer level.

I was a spec 10 cuz I made spec 5 twice. My CO took the first stripes but never actually reduced me in grade and later told me I was out of uniform for improperly wearing the spec 4 insignia. He was a nutter but soft-hearted underneath.

They promised me an E-6 rank as a re-up enticement (didn't work) but never specified if it would be a hard or soft stripe.

I was voice intercept -- Russian-- operator.

wunbe

IIRC, we had a guy that was a SPC-7/E-7 in our platoon. But I could be wrong and it was only an SPC-6/E-6. This was an old guy while I was in Germany back in 69/70. Another thing that I found strange was that Stateside, as a SPC-4/E-4, I was considered a NCO. When I got to Germany, I was just another EM. No, there is nothing strange about the Army.

Fox Mike said:

wwb said:

Spec 7 was as high as the "Specialist" grades went.... after that, E8 was either a Master Sergeant or First Sergeant (with a diamond above the rockers), and E9 was a Sergeant Major (with a star) or Command Sergeant Major (with a wreath around the star).

Click to expand...

I was s SP6 when I was stationed as a radar mechanic at a Nike Hercules site. Sorry to disagree but there was Sec 8 & 9 ranks. Didn't see many but they were possible.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Specialist_%28rank%29

Click to expand...

If you read the whole reference, it says that the E8 and E9 specialist ranks were done away with in 1968.... that's when I was drafted, so I stand by what I said, as long as it was after 1968.

Edited to add.... here's what I understand to be the current system - note that E8 and E9 have command and non-command ranks. Not sure how they currently handle E5 and E6 - looks like it's only SP4 these days.

I wore SP4, SP5, and SP6 stripes for a total of 12 years (1968-1980) and SFC, MSG, and 1SG for 13 years.

Was a specialist as a Nike Hercules Missile Maint Technician and Satellite Communication Ground Station Repairman.

Specialists were second class citizens whenever in/around Combat Arms units, even thought Nike was in the Air Defense Artillery (cross cannons a missile). Worse case was first day of Advanced Non Commissioned Officer Course (ANCOC) with 15 classmates all of which were Staff Sergeants and I was senior due to longest time in grade (TIG) and a SP6. Sargent Major came in classroom for briefing, asked who was class leader, I stood up and answered "I am Sargent Major.", and 30 seconds later I was no longer class leader as SGM loudly told 1SG "I am not having a God D--- specialist in charge of my Staff Sergeants. Make the change immediately!" Showing all of us how a Senior NCO should NOT act.

SATCOM

I saw many sp4/5 infantry in Vietnam. Spec played 2nd fiddle to stripe...a corporal would be in charge of a sp4. However,from previous comments,it seems there were some variations on the theme.

Our outfit in VN had a A Spec 8 named Harry Logan. He spoke fluent Vietnamese, married one, had a Silver Star for carrying a wounded Lt. out of a mine field in Korea, and was the guy to be with in a fire fight.

Often times when we got hit he was the ranking guy there and would jump right in and take charge. The Major had great respect for him.