New SR-460 Rowland Suggestion

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joihan777

Bearcat
Joined
Jul 19, 2013
Messages
20
Would a .460 Rowland chambered 'SR460R' be great gun?

.44 Magnum power in a relaible semi-auto, with a 10+ capacity to boot, seems like a great "woods" carry sidearm. The .460 Rowland has more power than a 10mm (sorry, no references for this remark, I've been researching a lot lately, on multiple computers, and hadn't bookmarked any references yet).

And if Mech-Tech adds a Ruger carbine to their lineup for 1911 .460 Rowland conversions, one could have a potent combo perfect for outdoors folks.

Any comments?
 

DonD

Single-Sixer
Joined
May 25, 2013
Messages
201
Firing a round much more powerful than the gun was designed to deal with usually results in a short life for the item. Good luck. Don
 

joihan777

Bearcat
Joined
Jul 19, 2013
Messages
20
I kinda figured they'd make a new platform of SRs, one for the 10mm crowd & one for 460R crowd. It can even be co-designed with Rowland (I believe he's worked with Ruger before).

A 10 shot semi-auto that can be used for nominal predator defense (boars, smaller bears etc.) would be PERFECT for those that hike in deep woods but prefer not to bring a larger carbine or full sized rifle and would like faster followup shots than a wheel gun allows. With picattiny rails no less.

I, for one, would not like to trust my life to a can of bear spray or pray 'common sense bear tactics' work EVERYTIME.
 

DonD

Single-Sixer
Joined
May 25, 2013
Messages
201
joihan777 said:
I, for one, would not like to trust my life to a can of bear spray or pray 'common sense bear tactics' work EVERYTIME.

I agree, bear threads are constantly popping up. While I believe that a huge dose of spray may well deter a curious bear, I simply don't believe if a big, hacked off grizzly wants your tail he'll be stopped by a can of spray.

I've seen police videos of individuals not on illegal drugs/stimulants simply shrug off an industrial sized spray dose. If a 180# human can fight off spray, my faith is in a well placed, high power slug when dealing with a powerful animal that can run well over 1000#. Don
 

Rei40c

Blackhawk
Joined
Feb 16, 2012
Messages
976
Hum I like the idea just seems something would have to be done for recoil. Perhaps one of those hoage grips joint ventures they do for firearms companies at times.

10mm is about my personal limit for recoil tolerance, and with hot 10mm loads its beyond it in terms of me actually shooting it well,flinch city. But for the bigger guys I suppose it'd not be a problem in .460, but for me I'm out on that! :D
 

joihan777

Bearcat
Joined
Jul 19, 2013
Messages
20
Rei40c said:
Hum I like the idea just seems something would have to be done for recoil. Perhaps one of those hoage grips joint ventures they do for firearms companies at times.

10mm is about my personal limit for recoil tolerance, and with hot 10mm loads its beyond it in terms of me actually shooting it well,flinch city. But for the bigger guys I suppose it'd not be a problem in .460, but for me I'm out on that! :D
I'm thinking a 10mm would get a single integrated port, while the .460 Rowland version would get a dual ported version, with appropriate springs of course. I think a 10-round 10mm or .460R semi-auto would be the best 'woods' sidearm available.

A Ruger SR version of the Wilson Combat 1911 Hunter series is kinda what I'm thinkin':
(If it's good enough for Ted Nugent, I'd be sure to give it a whirl!)

wilson-combat-hunter-1.jpg


http://wilsoncombat.com/new/handgun-hunter.asp#.UktVLtK9uSo
 

Rei40c

Blackhawk
Joined
Feb 16, 2012
Messages
976
I really like the way they did the porting on that. I've seen it done in some odd ways I don't care for. Like when they hack up the top of the slide it ruins the looks I think.

Would love to own it. But I'm betting the CT grips are probably almost as expensive as my sr40c lol. I know they are the best but I always get sticker shock looking at them in the shops.
 

joihan777

Bearcat
Joined
Jul 19, 2013
Messages
20
woodman39 said:
Just buy an Alaskan, problem solved.

6 hard-to-shoot shots against an oncoming grizzly? No thanks!

I'd much prefer the ability to squeeze off 10+ rounds of .460 Rowland
in a gun with no safety and a 5 lb. trigger pull.

Over the years I've been surprised by bears one too many times...
though a last resort, I'd like to know I can use deadly force if necessary.
The Alaskan is a fine weapon, but it is too slow in my humble opinion.

Sadly, I think a Glock 21, with a Rowland kit on it, is my best choice at the moment.
:(
 

joihan777

Bearcat
Joined
Jul 19, 2013
Messages
20
woodman39 said:
joihan777 said:
woodman39 said:
Just buy an Alaskan, problem solved.

6 hard-to-shoot shots against an oncoming grizzly? No thanks!
:(
Is the .460 roland in a 1911 or Glock more manageable than the .454 casul in an Alaskan?
From what I've read, a .460 Rowland, either ported or compensated, is VERY manageable.
I cannot, however, attest to a side by side comparison as I've never fired a .454 Alaskan.

I do know, however, that the trigger pull of a revolver is generally greater than 5 lbs.
Does the Alaskan come with a lighter DA pull? If so, it may be a worthy contender.
But it would still be limited to 6 rounds. A Glock21 can be had with LARGE magazines...
 

jammer

Single-Sixer
Joined
Feb 28, 2008
Messages
248
Location
SE Wisconsin
joihan777 said:
woodman39 said:
Just buy an Alaskan, problem solved.

6 hard-to-shoot shots against an oncoming grizzly? No thanks!

I'd much prefer the ability to squeeze off 10+ rounds of .460 Rowland
in a gun with no safety and a 5 lb. trigger pull.

Over the years I've been surprised by bears one too many times...
though a last resort, I'd like to know I can use deadly force if necessary.
The Alaskan is a fine weapon, but it is too slow in my humble opinion.

Sadly, I think a Glock 21, with a Rowland kit on it, is my best choice at the moment.
:(

then get a 450 bushmaster or ar10 in 338 federal.. if you cant carry a rifle then think about this...

Fast is fine, but accuracy is final. You must learn to be slow in a hurry. Wyatt Earp (1848 – 1929)
 

woodman39

Bearcat
Joined
Jun 2, 2012
Messages
63
Location
MTN. Home, AR
jammer said:
joihan777 said:
woodman39 said:
Just buy an Alaskan, problem solved.

6 hard-to-shoot shots against an oncoming grizzly? No thanks!

I'd much prefer the ability to squeeze off 10+ rounds of .460 Rowland
in a gun with no safety and a 5 lb. trigger pull.

Over the years I've been surprised by bears one too many times...
though a last resort, I'd like to know I can use deadly force if necessary.
The Alaskan is a fine weapon, but it is too slow in my humble opinion.

Sadly, I think a Glock 21, with a Rowland kit on it, is my best choice at the moment.
:(

then get a 450 bushmaster or ar10 in 338 federal.. if you cant carry a rifle then think about this...

Fast is fine, but accuracy is final. You must learn to be slow in a hurry. Wyatt Earp (1848 – 1929)
Very true. I shoot the USPSA matches at our local club and when I try to shoot very fast my accuracy suffers so my scores go down.
 

lmcl123

Bearcat
Joined
Dec 3, 2013
Messages
1
I was looking for recent 460 Rowland internet activity tonight and stumbled onto this. Since I have some experience and data on this subject, I thought I'd weigh in. I am by no means an expert (although I did stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night!). So here it goes.

I own and reload for 44 Mag, 460 S&W Mag, 45 Super, and 460 Rowland in an XD45 Tactical 6" compensated barrel. I use the Quickload Interior Ballistics program as reference when reloading so I don't blow myself up. I use these guns for bear and moose protection.

I got into the 460 Rowland initially by converting a friend's 1911 to a 45 super and that led to this. I've had my 460 Rowland for 18 months and have mainly been experimenting with 255 gr. and 265 gr. cast bullets. I've been getting velocities of 1400 fps with the 255 gr. bullets and 1270fps with the 265gr.cast bullets. I find that the recoil isn't anymore (maybe a little less) than my Model 29 with a six inch barrel loaded with my 240gr bear reloads of twenty years ago. It's definitely less than my current 310 grain bear loads in my 44mag.

The following is my recoil experience with the Ruger Alaskan 454 Casull. I normally load 460 S&W for my 460 S&W, but a friend in Kodiak asked me to make him up some hot loads for his Ruger Alaskan 454 Casul. I didn't have access to his gun so I worked the loads up in my 460 S&W with 5" barrel. When the loads started kicking a little bit in my gun, I stopped. I figured the loads would kick a more in his lighter gun. When we tested the loads in his gun, we found out that they kicked substantially more. The recoil in that gun felt like the recoil of my 460 S&W 360gr cast loads in my 460 S&W! The recoil was very high.
The load was a 275 gr. hardcast that chronoed at 1580fps in my 5" barrel. This produces 1522 ft. lbs. of energy. My Quickload program put the load at 50,796psi. When I changed the barrel length in Quickload to 2.5" (Alaskan barrel length) the results are 1194fps and 870ft. lbs. of energy. This is less than the 460 Rowland 255gr load generates. I know this is an apple to orange comparison. Here's an apple to apple Quickload calculation comparison.
460 Rowland 255gr 6" barrel- 40,000 cup, 1325psi, 994ft. lbs
454 Casull 255gr 2.58" barrel- 65,000psi, 1283psi, 931ft. lbs

So what's this all mean (and this is IMO). Before I piss anyone off, I will say that the 454 Casull is a vastly superior cartridge to the 460 Rowland and size does matter. In this case though, I'm talking about barrel length, not the cartridge size. The above comparison shows what a huge disservice a short barreled handgun does to such good cartridges as 454 casull or 44mag. I know from the loads I worked up for the 454 Casull Alaskan, the recoil was approaching "ouch levels", and those loads were well under max pressure for the 454. There may be an advantage to using heavier bullets (300+ gr.) in a Ruger Alaskan, but personally I'll stick with my longer barreled 460 Rowland, or my 460 S&W when I'm on Kodiak, because those bears are FREAKIN BIG!!!. IMO, my XD460 Rowland is more manageable than the Alaskan 454 Casull .

As far as choosing between revolver and handgun, that will be debated forever. I initially had some problems with my Rowland cycling. I narrowed this down to magazine and OAL problems. Once I figured these out, I haven't had any operational problems (but it's always a possibility). I've never had a revolver fail to fire.
A semi auto offers more rounds than a revolver (until you double spring the magazine), but if anyone ever actually gets six - ten shots off at a charging bear, the bear wasn't charging when the shooting started(IMO). I know two people who have had to shoot bears in self defense; one of them has been unlucky enough to have to shoot two. They both only got off one shot in each occurrence and it was enough. They were also using 454 Casulls, but with longer barrels.

The 460 Rowland is the first semiauto I've ever owned. I was always a 44mag revolver guy. But after using it for 18 months, I'm a fan of it. The trigger pull is less than my Model 29 and 460S&W. I think this is an important consideration in accuracy under a rushed pressure situation where I'm only going to get off one or two shots…if I'm lucky! I'm still going to use my 460S&W when I'm on Kodiak. I don't know if I mentioned it, but those bears are FREAKIN BIG!!

Also, if one is leaning toward the 460 Rowland, I think a double stack will offer a little more power because the wider magazine nose allows for longer OALs than the single stacks offer. This translates to more powder and velocity. When I converted my friend's Remington R1 1911 to 45 Super it seemed more finicky to get it working properly. The 460Rowland.com conversion I put into my XD Tactical had very little problems and had fewer parts to switch out. It also kicks less than my buddy's 45 super. I'm sure this has to do with the compensated barrel. At some point though, I am going to find a 1911 and convert it to a 460 Rowland. I have a 6"compensated 45acp barrel and all the springs. I just need to find a 1911 and a finish reamer.
Hope that info helps anyone who is interested in this subject.
 
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