jig for cutting dovetail?

[alaskamace]

I have seen a couple of old posts about the Wheeler Dovetail Cutting Fixture that Midway used to carry. Does anyone know where something like this can be obtained? I would like to cut a dovetail for a front sight, but do not trust my freehand filing skills.

 

[I_Like_Pie]

I think that they pulled it from the market as folks were using it on big bull barrels....shallow dovetails.



If you have some practice stock it isn't all that hard, but totally understand the hesitation. Practice, practice practice. Not for the faint of heart, but not out of most handymen's ability.

 

[powder smoke]

Ya free hand could be tricky. Good luck on your hunt, doing something like that is beyond my skills unless it's wood of course. lol ps

 

[cellar701]

I initially had reservations about doing this by hand and by eye, but after reading in Dunlap's (Gunsmithing) book how to do it, it is pretty straight forward. As in any job, you'll need the correct tools (files in this case) and a little patience. After doing a practice one or two (doesn't take long to do one) they become pretty simple and you'll wonder why you were so hesitant to tackle it.

One tip in Dunlap's book which is extremely helpful to me is to use an old sight, file the angle sides off square and use this to slide/drop in and evaluate and true your initial square-cut slot in the barrel before filing out the undercut bevels on sides. Use the correct files with proper "safe" sides (no teeth) and it works!

 

[I_Like_Pie]

One tip in Dunlap's book which is extremely helpful to me is to use an old sight, file the angle sides off square and use this to slide/drop in and evaluate and true your initial square-cut slot in the barrel before filing out the undercut bevels on sides. Use the correct files with proper "safe" sides (no teeth) and it works!

Yes....this is the easiest way to tell if everything lines up right. The eyes are amazingly good at telling level/plumb on a front sight. Go straight down, get it correct and true, then go left to right for the dovetails. as long as you get the depth and level right....the dovetail cuts are the easy parts.

DON'T spend a lot of money on a fancy dovetail file. Buy a $4 small triangular file at Ace and then make one of the sides "Safe" by slowly grinding it flat.

 

[Pinecone]

alaskamace, A good way to reference your barrel for the cut is to level the gun in a vice (your going to need a solid hold to file properly) and put two half moon pieces of ducktape on either side of the potential cut. Measure the depth of the sight dovetail and now put reference depth marks on each side of each piece of tape with a "fine" magic marker using the depth measure you just took on the "sight". This is the method I recommend when you don't have any "special" aligning equipment! Cut the initial depth with a safe sided "Pillar" file just a little narrower than the dovetail. Once your close to the depth you want, then cut the "bevel" grooves with a fine triangular file "safe" (smooth) on the "bottom" so as to not have an uneven depth. If you don't have the proper files, the job gets more difficult to do properly. The ducktape is a "cheap" man's equivalent of the dovetail device! Very early on in my gunsmithing career, a customer brought me in a muzzle loader barrel that he wanted "10" dovetails cut into it. He had the barrel marked where he wanted them and would only tell me he was doing some kind of "experiment"! Never did figure out what that was, but money is money and I sure learned how to cut dovetails by the time that job was done! It's not that hard if you go "slow" and check your "level" often!........................Dick :wink:

 

[edlmann]

DON'T spend a lot of money on a fancy dovetail file. Buy a $4 small triangular file at Ace and then make one of the sides "Safe" by slowly grinding it flat.

I disagree. It's not just the "safe" side on the dovetailing file; it's also that the sides are parallel, not tapered.

I'm not saying that it can't be done. I have, however, half-assed enough stuff to appreciate how helpful the right tool can be.

 

[I_Like_Pie]

DON'T spend a lot of money on a fancy dovetail file. Buy a $4 small triangular file at Ace and then make one of the sides "Safe" by slowly grinding it flat.

I disagree. It's not just the "safe" side on the dovetailing file; it's also that the sides are parallel, not tapered.

I'm not saying that it can't be done. I have, however, half-assed enough stuff to appreciate how helpful the right tool can be.

Yes they should parallel as well....figured it went without saying. Either way... a parallel & triangular file practically anywhere is $4. The ones that brownell sells are $45 with the only difference being a "safe" side.

 

[alaskamace]

I ran across this the other day. http://www.cainsoutdoor.com/shop/item.asp?item=302417

I am thinking I could probably get the job done after reading some of the tips you guys have given, but the $35 might not be a bad investment.

 

[I_Like_Pie]

I ran across this the other day. http://www.cainsoutdoor.com/shop/item.asp?item=302417

I am thinking I could probably get the job done after reading some of the tips you guys have given, but the $35 might not be a bad investment.

I agree....that seems like a sure fire way to get the initial cut straight. Seems like that one would still require the freehand tails to be made. Looks like a straightforward design. Would at least inspire confidence.

Would be willing to bet that you could sell it for almost what you paid for it (maybe a little less) once you have used it a couple of times to be able to do it freehand.

 

[edlmann]

DON'T spend a lot of money on a fancy dovetail file. Buy a $4 small triangular file at Ace and then make one of the sides "Safe" by slowly grinding it flat.

I disagree. It's not just the "safe" side on the dovetailing file; it's also that the sides are parallel, not tapered.
I'm not saying that it can't be done. I have, however, half-assed enough stuff to appreciate how helpful the right tool can be.

Yes they should parallel as well....figured it went without saying. Either way... a parallel & triangular file practically anywhere is $4. The ones that brownell sells are $45 with the only difference being a "safe" side.

I don't think I've ever seen a triangular file in a hardware store that wasn't tapered.

 

[Pinecone]

That Cain's device is very similiar to what Brownell's sold at one time. I have a home made one somewhere in my collection of tools and "things" but havn't seen it in probably 10 years! If I need to cut one now a days, I simply level the barrel and free-hand it. Easy to say when you have done a few hundred!....................Dick :wink:

 

[alaskamace]

Is there a standard depth on a 3/8'' dovetail, or does it vary from sight to sight?

 

[Pinecone]

alaskamace, Well there are "standards" but with a lot of variance from gun to gun! Most rifle dovetails are 3/32" (.0938) but you will find rifle sights from 1/16" (.0625) to 1/8" (.120), and everything in between! Handgun dovetail sights will also fall in this "range". The old sight makers like Lyman, Marble, Pacific, etc. tried to standardize sights and dovetails but only with partial success as there were a lot of individual gun manufacturers who had their own ideas about sights and dovetails!...................Dick :wink:

 

[wavehopr]

Here's a good photo tutorial on how to cut dovetails:
http://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=33233

 

[Pinecone]

I checked out the tutorial and there are a few things I recommend "differently". I don't recommend the hacksaw because the novice will tend to go too "deep" on some cuts with the resulting clean-up giving too much depth in the dovetail. Also, most people allow the hacksaw blade to "walk" all over the place! You can "hog" out metal with the pillar file pretty quickly and keep your depth level. To do the job right you should get the right files to begin with. They will pay dividends for you if you plan to aquire a fairly large gun collection. These are the three files I use to cut my dovetails with over the years. (1) A 1/4 inch wide # 2 Pillar file with both safe sides. (2) A 65 degree # 3 dovetail file (Brownell's) with two safe sides. (3) A 3 inch small Nicholson "knife" file with a very fine knife edge on both sides. Look around old tool places and you can find a lot of Pillar files for less than a dollar each. The dovetail file you will have to buy from Brownell's. Also the knife edge file from Brownell's although I have found them at old tool places. The edge on them is around a # 6 and they are great to sharpen and square off your deep dovetail edges. Go easy when using them as they are very thin and brittle! They are used to clean up your dovetail edges, not to "hog" out material! Simply "scribe" your two lines just slightly wider than the width of the pillar file. 15 minutes with these three files will give you a very nice dovetail. The tutorial does have some very good pointers..................Dick :wink:

 

[alaskamace]

I see Brownell's sells files with 65 degree and 60 degree angles. Is one preferable over the other?

 

[Pinecone]

There is not much difference between the two. I utilize the 65 degree for most of my jobs. (I have both of them). I try a safe side of the file in the sight bevel itself and if I see daylight, I try the other file. For "economy's" sake, go with the 65 degree file. It will do the job just fine!.............Dick :wink:

 

[alaskamace]

One more question. How much metal should be left between the bottom of the cut and the inside of the barrel after filing the dovetail? My first cut will be on a NV .357. With a depth of .090, the cut will only take about half the outer thickness of the barrel. If say, I wanted to do the same on a .45, obviously there will much less to work with. Is there a recommended amount of metal to leave behind?

 

[Pinecone]

It's going to vary from gun to gun and where the dovetail is placed in relation to the major stress areas. The "general" rule of thumb is that you want at least "half" of the barrel thickness still there after the dovetail is cut. However, this is just a "GENERAL" rule and not always a "given"! If your doing this on a .357 Mag, I would try some low power .38 Special loads first after getting everything in place before full house .357 Mag loads! Remember, you can "tailor" your dovetail and sight to take up less depth depending on the match-up with the rear sight................Dick :wink: