Winchester 1907 - 351 WSL Reloading

[dfletcher]

I know - the 1907 and 351 WSL have nothing to do with Ruger, although if any company were to revive this neat little rifle it would be Ruger albeit in something other than the 351 chambering. And I figure there are a few here who may have one & reload for it.

I just picked up a 1924 made version, managed to find everything I need to reload, with the exception of brass. Found some, but the OCD in me won't accept going to the range with 50 cases and coming back with 48 or 49 empties. So I'm trying to find a "parent case" from which to make 351 WSL brass. 357 Maximum is the often suggested one, but turning the base and rim doesn't work for me. When you look at other cases one other pops up with some nearly exact specs as the 351 WSL - 5.56/223 and some of their offspring, the 221 Fireball & 300 Whisper/AAC.

Rim diameter, base diameter and rim thickness are an exact match or very, very close. Case length is where it gets interesting. Case length for the 351 WSL is listed as 1.374". 300 Whisper/AAC is listed as 1.365". 221 FB lists 1.4". Obviously the 221 FB has enough case length, but taking the case neck from 22 caliber to 35 caliber - too much of a stretch, literally? Will I end up with too thin case necks? 221 FB brass is easy to get, but not exactly cheap.

300 Whisper/AAC brass is a tad shorter than 351 WSL - is it too short? Will increasing caliber from 30 to 35 make it shorter? I've loaded for the 300 AAC and using 223 brass can tell there is a difference in wall thickness in the shoulder area, I wonder if that will cause a problem. I suppose buying "factory made" 300 AAC brass dispenses with that problem.

So, am wondering if anyone here has tried this and how it worked out. Or if not, what might long time reloaders think of the above - have I missed anything on why this would work, it sounds a bit too easy and when that happens I figure I've overlooked something.

 

[Chief 101]

hi...I have one of the first ones made in 1907, it was used in our state prison which closed down in the '70s I believe. I got this rifle from the guard that carried it, he had busted an inmate across the back with the stock and broke it at the handgrip but repaired it(I repaired the repair), its shootable now. I load mine with 357Mag brass of which I turn the rim and extractor groove down to specs. You need the rim for headspacing(rimless cases don't work). I use a l lead bullet made by RCBS(35-200 sized to .354") and a full load of WW 296. I shoots and I lose some brass but it is still good. It don't shoot very accurately but it is reliable. BTW, one of these was used in the final Bonnie and Clyde shoot down.
The .357 Mag brass is a little short but it crimps the bullet in the right place to give proper OAL...I slugged the bore at .353" so I didn't have to size the bullet down any further than I did. 2 resizing steps, first to .356" then to .354". That's my story and I am sticking to it...good luck with yours, just remember the .351 SL headspaces on the rim. There was somebody on the net that sold brass for this made from the Max case, that might be a viable source for you.

 

[Jimbo357mag]

Starline has 360 DW brass which is a little longer than 357 mag brass. Length is 1.410"

https://www.starlinebrass.com/brass-cases/360-DW-Brass/index.cfm

 

[Chief 101]

Starline has 360 DW brass which is a little longer than 357 mag brass. Length is 1.410"

https://www.starlinebrass.com/brass-cases/360-DW-Brass/index.cfm

you still have to trim the rim on a lathe so the OP has an issue with that and for me it doesn't crimp at the same OAL so length is an issue...not of much use...

 

[dfletcher]

Thanks for the info. I see the 351 "case diameter" is listed as .377 and the rim diameter is listed as .407 - so, safe to say the 351 headspaces on the rim and not the case mouth, yes? Which kind of screws things up for me because on the 223 type cases the case and rim diameter are the same.

The only other parent case I can see working is a cut down 30 Remington and that would take some sizing to get the case body right.

 

[Jimbo357mag]

I load mine with 357Mag brass of which I turn the rim and extractor groove down to specs. You need the rim for headspacing(rimless cases don't work).

That doesn't sound so hard. How do you do that?

I think you should give this a try dfletcher and/or find somebody to make a bunch of cases for you.

 

[Chief 101]

I do it on a lathe, its easy for myself, it goes one at a time...I have maybe 75-100 cases and that lasts a long time. The bullets are the hard part...have to slug the barrel and find or make something to work for a projectile.. They should be .351, but mine slugged at .353 so I was able to size .358 down to .354", I don't shoot many as this rifle is not a tackdriver, but it is fun to shoot.

 

[dfletcher]

I guess I'll have to slug the bore too, maybe I'll get lucky.

The 30 Remington family (25, 30, 32 & 35) case looks like a possible. Rim diameter is .422, that's .012 larger than the 351. Base diameter is .421 - I wonder if FL resizing can successfully take that down to .377? Too much of a squeeze?

 

[427mach1]

By the time you do all the modifications to some other caliber parent brass.... Why don't you just buy the right brass to start with? I did a quick internet search and found a couple of sources. Sure, it is expensive, but what is the time you spent modifying brass worth? Plus, your brass will not have the correct markings; I'm more OCD about things like that. No reloader likes to lose brass, so maybe should use a brass catcher?

 

[Chief 101]

I just did a search and found a good place to buy the brass
https://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/category/categoryId/807
its out of stock at the moment but they should have some in before you get too old.
http://www.buffaloarms.com/351_Winchester_Self_Loading_Cases_it-160044.aspx
These ppl may have in stock some cases

 

[kevin seyer]

buffalo arms says ample stock. 58.00 per 100 not real bad.

 

[dfletcher]

buffalo arms says ample stock. 58.00 per 100 not real bad.

Thanks for the heads up, they were supposed to send me a notice. I got the last 65 cases, 85 on backorder.

 

[Chief 101]

I would have bought some myself if they were available at the time...good luck with your project
The 1907 is really a reliable rifle. They even made some sporter versions, but the 351 SL is fairly wimpy...about like a 357 Max...I chrono's mine at about 1800fps I think...

 

[dfletcher]

By the time you do all the modifications to some other caliber parent brass.... Why don't you just buy the right brass to start with? I did a quick internet search and found a couple of sources. Sure, it is expensive, but what is the time you spent modifying brass worth? Plus, your brass will not have the correct markings; I'm more OCD about things like that. No reloader likes to lose brass, so maybe should use a brass catcher?

I used to use a brass catcher - he was reliable and efficient but wanted too much money .... :lol:

I don't mind the markings, for some reason that doesn't bug me. Not really a matter of $$$, although Bertram @ $40.00 per 20 is a tad steep. I'd just like to put together about 250 cases total and other than Buffalo Bore and a full box of 50 @ Selway - damn this stuff is hard to find.

 

[Hunter6657]

A 158gr or 200gr bullet at 1800fps is not that wimpy in a carbine. Sounds about the same or a little more than a 357 Magnum in a rifle or 357 Maximum in a 14" Contender and those will drop deer on out to 150 yards.

 

[Major T]

My first trooper assignment landed me a 61 Plymouth and a .351 SL rifle. I was able to upgrade to an 870 riot gun. It was more accurate with slugs than the .351 was with factory ammo. Personally, I would regard the .351 to relic status and get something more accurate and easier to load for. Not much love for the rifle or cartridge here, BUT it is your time and money.

Best wishes,

Jack

 

[5of7]

This outfit says that they have it....
https://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/category/categoryId/807

 

[dfletcher]

Grafs is terrific, that's where I got my dies & bullets, but no 351 brass in stock for now. I have about 120 together and the reworked 300 Blackout stuff works like a charm. Definitely an odd gun, the recoil feels like an old turbo kicking in - a little kick when that action bar starts back and another one when it slaps against the action.

 

[Major T]

I had one issued to me until about 1963 or so. They were not accurate when factory ammo was available. I could shoot tighter groups at 50 yards with the replacement 870 riot gun loaded with slugs than I could with the .351. Not a fan of the product. The other trooper in the station had a .30 Remington self loader. It was not a lot better.

The one redeeming quality of loading for the .351 is that it will occupy enough time that perhaps it will save you from some other vice. LOL.....

Jack

 

[dfletcher]

^
Saving $$$ reloading can sure get expensive.