45 ACP RELOADING

[Olsherm]

Just aquired one of the new Remington 1911 R1 auto's. If I decide to keep it(i am a single action nut") I will reload for it. My question is,will the auto's work ok with lead nound nose bullets? Also I noticed the factory jacketed ammo does not appear to be crimped? Do the lead round nose bullets have a crimping groove or do you not crimp them? I just have not been around the 1911 at all before. I have only reloaded for the Single Actions for a long time. I just fired the 1911 today with factory ammo and it was fun to shoot but I spent too much time looking for my brass.YUK!

 

[Sam Johnson]

Yes the lead 230 grain round nose cast bullets have worked very good in my Colt 1911's. The .45 ACP are not crimped, they head space on the mouth or the case. Have a look down the barrel of your new Remington from the breech end and you will see the milled step for the case mouth. The 1911.s are good shooters and also tops for a personal defense gun. You are in for lots of fun shooting.

 

[Sgt Garcia]

I always use a taper crimp on all my 45 ACP cast bullet loads.
I have always applied a 1 to 1.5 thousandth crimp. Just measure the OD of the crimped round about 1/8 inch back from the mouth of the case, then measure right at the mouth. You want the difference to be .001 to .0015. It's easy to do and once your crimp die is set you shouldn't have to change it.

Dennis.

 

[revhigh]

The .45 ACP are not crimped, they head space on the mouth or the case.

The fact that the 45ACP and other auto rounds (like 9MM, 10MM, and .40) headspace on the mouth has nothing to do with whether they're crimped or not. Auto rounds use a taper crimp as mentioned above. Also, for reliable feeding, I strongly suggest a factory taper crimp die (like Hornady) to be used in the last station, or as the last step in reloading. The factory taper crimp die will full length size the entire finished round, which will remove any bulging caused by forcing the bullet into the belled case. Auto rounds need to be crimped because the violent action of the slide stripping a round from the clip can cause bullet setback, which can raise pressure drastically, and potentially cause a KABOOM, which is detrimental to the gun and your hand and face.

All auto rounds need to be crimped, but not roll crimped as a revolver round would be crimped in the cannelure.

REV

 

[Dale53]

I have loaded a shot over 100,000 rounds of .45 ACP. A goodly number have been fired in competition.

I use the barrel of the 1911 to adjust the seating depth of the bullet so that a loaded round, dropped in a barrel held vertical (chamber on top) will have the base of the case flush with the barrel hood. THAT is the way you determine seating depth.

Then, seat with one die and taper crimp with the last die. I taper crimp to a measurement of the outside of the case mouth at .470".

You will get good feeding and NO bullet set back. Further, that measurement will not damage a bullet.

Dale53

 

[Hammerdown77]

Another tip: If you use a Lee Factory Crimp Die with the carbide sizing ring, back the die all the way out until only the case mouth goes into the sizing ring (right at the mouth of the die) with the ram raised all the way up. You are using the sizing ring to "iron out" the case mouth flare, but not actually crimp, which is really what "taper crimp" means on the .45 Auto. This is a much smoother and more easily repeatable operation than messing with the actual taper crimp stem adjustment.

 

[Sgt Garcia]

You are using the sizing ring to "iron out" the case mouth flare, but not actually crimp, which is really what "taper crimp" means on the .45 Auto.

Wow, can't agree with that one. A taper crimp is actually a crimp and with a 45 ACP cast bullet load should be a measurable one of .001 to .0015.

Dennis.

 

[Hammer]

.

Handloading for semiauto pistols is a little different than for revolvers or bolt action rifles.

At least for the novice handloader...

Make no attempt to "improve" the performance of the 45 ACP in semiauto pistols.

Your main objective should be matching the reliability and performance of factory ammo in your pistol.

In revolvers and in bolt action rifles handloaders are always tempted to hotrod or try lots of things to make "better" performance ammo than the factory. Have done it myself for over 35+ years.

But for the semiauto pistol in 45, just focus on reproducing factory ammo reliability and performance.

At least for the first ten years or so...



For the what it's worth...

Have handloaded 100,000's of 45 ACP with lead round nose bullets using a Dillon Precision 1050 and other presses.

Many have went "bang".


.

 

[revhigh]

You are using the sizing ring to "iron out" the case mouth flare, but not actually crimp, which is really what "taper crimp" means on the .45 Auto.

Wow, can't agree with that one. A taper crimp is actually a crimp and with a 45 ACP cast bullet load should be a measurable one of .001 to .0015.

Dennis.

Correct, Dennis !!

REV

 

[Hammerdown77]

The .45 ACP are not crimped, they head space on the mouth or the case.

The fact that the 45ACP and other auto rounds (like 9MM, 10MM, and .40) headspace on the mouth has nothing to do with whether they're crimped or not. Auto rounds use a taper crimp as mentioned above. Also, for reliable feeding, I strongly suggest a factory taper crimp die (like Hornady) to be used in the last station, or as the last step in reloading. The factory taper crimp die will full length size the entire finished round, which will remove any bulging caused by forcing the bullet into the belled case. Auto rounds need to be crimped because the violent action of the slide stripping a round from the clip can cause bullet setback, which can raise pressure drastically, and potentially cause a KABOOM, which is detrimental to the gun and your hand and face.

All auto rounds need to be crimped, but not roll crimped as a revolver round would be crimped in the cannelure.

REV

I would contend that crimping a lead bullet auto round does very little, if nothing, to decrease setback. I've chambered dummy rounds (the same one) many times, using a 230 g LRN bullet with no "crimp" (just removed the flare with the sizing ring), and saw no measurable setback.

I just measured a factory Winchester White Box .45 Auto round, and it appears to have a case dia. difference of .0005" to .001" from very edge of the case mouth to about 1/8" down. That's a very slight taper crimp, as you all have noted.

In some guns, that makes a difference in whether they chamber or not. Not in mine (1911s and revolvers). They all chamber just fine with a straight case mouth.

My worry about crimping a lead bullet with no cannelure is that you will actually compress the lead bullet a tad, along with the case mouth. The brass springs back, but the bullet does not, which could reduce your case/bullet tension and increase setback potential.

On m1911forum.org, one of the members did an extensive test on the effects of bullet setback using various amounts of crimp with lead bullets, and found that no crimp produced the least amount of setback.

In reality though, if we're talking .001 to .0015 worth, that ain't much, and I'm not going to worry about it.

 

[revhigh]

Some good points HD77, however I fail to see how taper crimping a lead bullet can lead to 'less' case neck tension. WIth my Hornady TCD, it not only full length sizes if adjusted properly (which is all the way down against the shell plate on the upstroke), it puts the exact correct taper crimp on the round, which is NOT the same as running a finished round through a carbide sizing ring. A taper crimp is truly 'tapered', not just made so that the case sides are parallel again. That's why I use the Hornady TCD's, and not the LEE TCD's (which I've tried). The LEE dies didn't actually taper crimp ... they more or less just resized the loaded round.

If you use both, and compare the results, you'll EASILY see the difference. The results of the Hornady is a visible taper, not so with the LEE. The Hornady TCD results in absolute slick feeding with NO CHANCE of a failure to go into battery due to case bulges or lack of completely removing the belling on the case mouth.

I guarantee you'd be able to see the difference between the results of the two different brand name dies.

REV

 

[Ale-8(1)]

Another view . . .

I have reloaded .45ACP for over forty years and have never used a taper crimp die. These weren't even available until (relatively) recently.

I use an old set of Lyman dies with a carbide sizing die and a "normal" crimp die. I adjust the crimp die to just remove the flare from the case mouth . . . and a tiny bit more. Not a roll crimp by any means.

Not having used a taper crimp die, I cannot comment on how well they work or what advantage they provide, so I'm not saying they aren't a good thing. I simply haven't ever used one nor seen the need to do so.

I have used round-nose bullets, both jacketed and lead, and lead semi-wadcutters with complete success.

JMHO

 

[Hammerdown77]

Some good points HD77, however I fail to see how taper crimping a lead bullet can lead to 'less' case neck tension. WIth my Hornady TCD, it not only full length sizes if adjusted properly (which is all the way down against the shell plate on the upstroke), it puts the exact correct taper crimp on the round, which is NOT the same as running a finished round through a carbide sizing ring. A taper crimp is truly 'tapered', not just made so that the case sides are parallel again. That's why I use the Hornady TCD's, and not the LEE TCD's (which I've tried). The LEE dies didn't actually taper crimp ... they more or less just resized the loaded round.

If you use both, and compare the results, you'll EASILY see the difference. The results of the Hornady is a visible taper, not so with the LEE. The Hornady TCD results in absolute slick feeding with NO CHANCE of a failure to go into battery due to case bulges or lack of completely removing the belling on the case mouth.

I guarantee you'd be able to see the difference between the results of the two different brand name dies.

REV

How do you adjust the Hornady to NOT full length size the round when it's run up into the die? To me, full length sizing after a lead bullet is inserted in the case is counterproductive, as it swages down the brass around the bullet, or worse, compresses the lead and brass, the brass springing back while the lead bullet doesn't (creating potential for setback).

A lot of people knock out their sizing ring for use with cast bullets because they don't want the bullet/case swaged down. Before, when I'd run the round all the way up into the FCD, it would go "KA CHUNK" on the way in, and "KA CHUNK" on the way out. Almost every round. When I backed it out so that the sizing ring only kisses the mouth of the case to remove the flare, things are much smoother. Every single one of my rounds using .452" lead bullets and Winchester brass measures .472" from the mouth of the case down to where the bullet base is inside the case.

 

[revhigh]

How do you adjust the Hornady to NOT full length size the round when it's run up into the die? .

THe taper is built into the die, not ADJUSTED into the die. If the Hornady TCD is adjusted properly, it will resize properly (where it needs to be resized), and taper crimp properly (where it needs to be crimped) depending on the caliber you're reloading.

THat's what makes it so much superior to the LEE TCD (which is more or less a resizing and decapping die without the decapping rod). THe Hornady TCD has a machined taper that is correct by caliber.

I freely admit I don't like LEE products for a lot of reasons, but I actually tried the LEE TCD for 9MM trying to save some money, and because the store had it in stock. Like almost all of the other LEE products I've tried ... it didn't work as advertised.

REV

 

[Hammerdown77]

Does it not full length size the round though? That's what I'm asking. I don't want anything to size the round after I've loaded a lead bullet.

How do you adjust the taper, just screw the die further in or out of the press (like a flaring die)? Why is that better than an adjustable stem?

 

[revhigh]

I don't want anything to size the round after I've loaded a lead bullet.

I don't know why you wouldn't want that ... but OK, if you say so.

The finished round should NOT have a bulge in it due to seating the bullet (if yours DON'T have a bulge ... then resizing is a non-issue). What's the problem with resizing to be sure the case walls are parallel, AND adding a little taper at the mouth to add a little the neck tension, all while keeping the required nice sharp edge for headspacing ?

I guess I just don't understand your objections .... there is simply no downside. The taper is very slight ... but can definitely be seen with the naked eye ... I've never measured it ... I just know it works absolutely flawlessly. I haven't had a failure to go into battery due to a bulged case since I've been using it.

REV

 

[Snake45]

I've loaded tens of thousands of rounds of .45ACP with Lee dies, which put a slight roll crimp in the case, just like a revolver load. Never had the slightest bit of problem with loading, chambering, or firing them, not a single one. The only downside I ever saw to the roll crimping was that of course they work the brass more than a taper crimp, right at the case mouth, so with the work-hardening, they'll eventually crack. But they'd go at least 10 loadings before cracking, sometimes many, many more, and I'll usually lose a case in the weeds before it cracks.

 

[Hammerdown77]

I don't want anything to size the round after I've loaded a lead bullet.

I don't know why you wouldn't want that ... but OK, if you say so.

REV

I don't want to swage down the brass around the .452" bullet as it passes back through the sizing ring. Like I said earlier, you compress that lead bullet down, you lose some neck tension.

I can't see how you wouldn't have some "bulge" in the case when you press in a .452" lead bullet. On this WWB round I have, FMJ with a bullet dia. of .451", there is a .001" difference in diameter of the case measured at the bullet base, vs. just below it. I don't think that's the "bulge" the FCD, or any sizing/crimp die is trying to remove. That bulge won't cause the round to fail to chamber. Now, if you had something really screwed up in your die setup, and you buckled the case a bit inserting the bullet, then yeah, you'd need to press that out. But if the bullet won't chamber just from the slight increase in case OD at the bullet body, then your chamber is too tight.

I don't disagree with you on the crimp part. And I don't think there's necessarily anything wrong with post sizing a loaded round. It's just for the reasons stated here and in my previous post, I'd rather avoid it with lead bullets.

 

[revhigh]

Gotcha ... I only load lead rounds for 45, been doing it with the FTC die for about the last 10 years or so, and the TCD has totally eliminated any failure to go into battery issues that I used to occasionally have.

I shoot so much 45 that I don't seperate or worry about cases, so I have a totally mixed bag ... sometimes the slight variations in case thickness between brands or batches will result in slightly bulged cases from seating the 200 grain LSWC's, and the TCD irons that right out. I use a progressive press at about 400-500 rounds per hour, so it's no big deal to screw in another die in the 5th position to have perfectly feeding rounds.

REV

 

[Ruber]

I was having a Rosie O'Donnell of a time with this cartridge lately trying to load up some deep penetrating jacketed and lead free loads (CA :roll: ). If I was super slow and careful, I might only get 1 in 50 fail to go into battery on its own, even with seating and crimping in two steps. I was getting ready to give up on carrying the 1911 in the field with me and go back to the big revolvers. REV's $20 fixit TCD saved me, man I needed that thing 2 months ago... Thanks