45 ACP RELOADING

[revhigh]

Glad you got your 45 reloading problem solved Ruber. It's nice my advice helped you out !!

Stay safe!

REV

 

[Hammerdown77]

May have to pick up one of the Hornady dies and try it. I need a separate crimp die for 9mm anyway.

 

[revhigh]

May have to pick up one of the Hornady dies and try it. I need a separate crimp die for 9mm anyway.

THe 9MM was the first Hornady TCD I ever bought .... it was so good that I bought one for the 45ACP.

Let us know how you like it .... don't compromise and get the LEE version. The difference is only a few dollars.

REV

 

[Sonnytoo]

How do you adjust the taper, just screw the die further in or out of the press (like a flaring die)? Why is that better than an adjustable stem?

You get a greater crimp by screwing the die down (in further) into the press.

I use Dillon dies primarily, and definitely use a Taper Crimp die for many thousands of lead SWC's. Usually 200 grain. Used to shoot a lot of Bullseye competition as a younger fellow. The "big boys" definitely use the Taper Crimp die and you should mike .470"-.472" across the very top of the brass when finished. With SWC's, many people use ~1.250" as OAL, with a minimum OAL occasionally stated as 1.19". This will leave about 0.025" of the body of the bullet "sticking out" of the brass, about the width of your thumbnail. Remember that bullet tension, caused by the brass holding onto the body of the bullet, is used to prevent bullet-jump. The crimp only plays a minor role in that.
Accuracy is best when you seat the bullet out as far as possible and it will still feed every time. For any particular barrel, if the bullet shoulder can just touch the lands, then you are likely to get the best accuracy out of your load. Keep the bullet just short of the lands, as that area will begin to get crudded up as you shoot and may then make it difficult for a round to be loaded.
Another check: take out your barrel, and drop in a loaded round that you have crimped the case mouth to .471-.472". Look at the round in the barrel. The bottom of the case should be flush or slightly under flush with the end of the barrel hood. The round should make a nice "thunk" as you drop it into the barrel. Remember, this .45 ACP headspaces on the case-mouth, so you must not deform it too much.
The rough formula for the crimp is to double the thickness of the brass and add it to the bullet o.d. Starline brass is 0.011" x 2 = 0.022". Now add that to bullet o.d. of .451 jacketed or .452 lead and you get your measurement of .473-.474". No crimp is bullet diameter plus two times the wall thickness of the brass. So now, if you crimp to ~ .470"-.471", you have a nice decent crimp.
Some brass has wall o.d. of only 0.010" so hence the .471"-.472" mentioned earlier. But, too much crimp, i.e. less than .470" is quite likely to ruin your accuracy.
For a nice check on what you're doing, take one commercial round and mike across the very top of the crimped casemouth, and you are likely to see approximatley .470-.471". This will build your confidence in terms of what you're after as a finished product. Use the Wide part of the mikes to measure, NOT the knife edge, and have the case-mouth right in the middle of the wide part of your mikes; that allows you to easily measure across the very top of the crimped case-mouth.
Sonnytoo

 

[revhigh]

Great info Sonny !!!

One question though. Are you using the Hornady TCD ?? From what I remember, the instructions say to screw it down until it touches the shellplate ... I'll have to check on that to be sure. If that's the case, there IS NO adjustment.

Awesome info AND excellent descriptions ! I absolutely 100% agree with every single point. I especially agree with your assessment of varying case mouth thicknesses, which is what I mentioned earlier with regard to possible slight bulging caused by varying case mouth thickness, which could be caused by not seperating/sorting your brass.

REV

 

[Sonnytoo]

Thank you, REV. Coming from "the Man", that's quite an honor.

I am using the DILLON Prec. Taper Crimp Die. It is part of the 4-die set. I seat and crimp on different dies, using my DILLON 550B press.
Before crimping, my case mouth measures about 0.481", due to the powder die flaring the mouth a bit for ease of starting the bullet. Starting with the loaded cartridge at my OAL of 1.245", I just screw the crimp die down, and pump the handle, until my measurement of .470"-.471" is reached, as per instructions. It's pretty gradual; I had no trouble in getting to my measurement. Once adjusted, the die is about 3/16" from the shellplate.
Some crimp dies will tend to push the bullet down deeper into the case than first intended, but I haven't found that to be true with this die.
best regards,
Sonnytoo

 

[revhigh]

Hey Sonny !!

Thanks for the compliment! It seems that you're considerably more into the technical measurement aspect than I've been. I pretty much over the years have 'done what works' .... I wouldn't be surprised if I measured my rounds that they'd come up very close to your measurements. I think the next time I reload 45's I'll do a little measuring just to see if they meet your precise standards. I think the Dillon TCD may be slightly different in that it's adjustable for crimp. I really need to read the instructions for the Hornady die, just to see if I'm right in that it gets screwed all the way down onto the shellplate. I could be wrong about that.

Thanks again, and I'll keep in touch regarding the die. From a technical reloading point of view ... I'll say YOU'RE THE MAN !!

REV

 

[Ruber]

I really need to read the instructions for the Hornady die, just to see if I'm right in that it gets screwed all the way down onto the shellplate.

Hey REV, The one I just picked up says to adjust the crimp to what works best in your gun a 1/4 turn at a time (there was no formula). The main point of the die it seems is it's designed to be used entirely for the crimping which allows it to be more tightly spec'd than the crimp and seat dies (even with the seating post out) such that it uniforms the complete cartridge should there have been any bulge.

I bet if you cranked it all the way down, it'd give you a mighty fine crimp though! :wink:

 

[revhigh]

Thanks Ruber !! Let us know how it works for you !

REV

 

[Ruber]

Let us know how it works for you !

Flawlessly... Thank You! I always liked the Hornady stuff but it was always just a bit more expensive. I went and re-crimped all my recent loads and they all fed without a hiccup, I probably coulda saved $80 if I had just started out splurging for the extra die but I was just stuck in my 30 year habit of using the combo dies.

Anyway, for folks who might not remember my history here, I joined up because I was trying to work up lead free handgun loads for the new laws in CA and kinda got drawn into the Blackhawks and Redhawks through exposure (careful, it can happen to anyone). Trying to work up the lead free loads, you gotta throw all the old conventional wisdom and experience out the window (along with any old shortcuts or sloppy habits), so I don't know if everyone will get as excited as I do about a little fixit like this...

Enjoy and be safe!

PS. I just put a new trigger in my carry 1911 that's now smooth as silk, so I'm doubly happy

 

[revhigh]

I just put a new trigger in my carry 1911 that's now smooth as silk, so I'm doubly happy

PICS PICS !!!

Awesome that the TCD worked so well for you !!! Congratulations ! As an FYI, all my dies are RCBS carbide ... EXCEPT the TCD's, which are Hornady.

REV

 

[Ruber]

all my dies are RCBS carbide ... EXCEPT the TCD's, which are Hornady.

Yep, RCBS has been pretty faithful to me, just every once in awhile I should break away from a family tradition...

The 1911 I'm loading up for is almost heresy for the RugerForum... dare I say Smith and Wesson. After having guns turn into safe queens, I wanted a modern 1911 for open carry in the field. I wanted it to be able to get dropped and run over, filled with dirt, all scratched up, and not shed a tear, so I picked out a stainless Smith and have been going through and replacing all the parts that aren't tough as nails. Most recent was the goofy "match trigger" they put in them, it went bye bye and the Smith now wears a more traditional length solid trigger that I stoned to fit (click here). Anyway, I'm finally getting a nice practical field gun that's somewhere between high cap poly-guns and my big bore Blackhawks (click here and here).

 

[revhigh]

Nice, clean looking piece you got there Ruber. I really like the matte finish on that 1911. The S&W 1911's are supposed to be real good, and if that one shoots as well as it looks, you'll be in good shape !

There's really only two S&W's that I'd ever own ... one is their AR15 and the other is their (and Dan Wesson's) 1911. The nice clean black double diamond grips and the contrasting controls makes for a beautiful combination. I have a Colt series 70 in nickel with the contrasting controls, and really like it. Mine has a black barrel bushing as well. Unlike you, though, I prefer the flat mainspring housing with the longer trigger, as compared to the short trigger, and that lock kind of makes me gag a little. LOL.

Nice gun ! Looks like our tastes run about the same !

REV

 

[Ruber]

Thanks REV!!

I like the series 70 Colts too, but can't buy them new in CA. The family has a couple of 'heirlooms' and they don't really see much action now days. Out of the different options available for a firing pin block, the Smith seemed the most durable, didn't have any relation to the trigger and is pretty easy to remove, so from an engineering standpoint, it had me there (not that I would advocate removing it...). But I was going back and forth between the Smith and the Series 80 Colt for a long time.

As far as a shooter, I've been very impressed, either this is the best shooting .45 I've ever used or I'm really getting better with the .45 Auto (which I kinda doubt). :shock:

 

[Sonnytoo]

Couple of comments I'd like to make, since this is an appropriate thread. First...Ruber, I like your handiwork. That looks like a nice gun. In my Colts, I always put in a Chip McCormick trigger, as the solid trigger seemed to bother my trigger finger after extensive shooting. Certainly, your solid trigger is much more consistent with the original design.

The other thing is...Hey Rev...as a matter of small interest perhaps. For 50-yard outdoor Bullseye competition, where the 10-ring is 3.36" in diameter with a tie-breaking inner ring of 1.695", you need all the accuracy you can get.
So that, I found it interesting that these fellows recommend that the cartridge is crimped as we have talked about...but then the cartridge is rotated in place, and crimped a second time, to help remove any slight difference in concentricity of the cartridge.
Just a bit of trivia that I found...
Sonnytoo

 

[revhigh]

Hi Ruber !

I actually meant the key-lock in the right side of the pistol above the trigger guard !!

Sonny ... sounds like it may make sense. Not for me though ... that would really put a crimp (LOL) in my 400 rounds per hour production rate.

REV

 

[Ruber]

I actually meant the key-lock in the right side of the pistol above the trigger guard !!

Ahhh... I did get a little confused. There is no key-lock, there is a bit of a recessed area there around the slide stop pin with a different or hardened finish that shows up kinda bad with the flash. It's a little different, the slide stop will fit sloppily into another 1911, but other slide stops will not fit it.

Sonnytoo,
Good tip. I do that with all my match and hunting ammo. It does take some time for just plinking or range ammo...

 

[revhigh]

There is no key-lock...

What's that hole above the trigger guard on the right side of the frame ??

REV

 

[Ruber]

What's that hole above the trigger guard on the right side of the frame ??

Ohh... that...

That's the communications port for the laser range finder that can interface directly with my PLGR to give me a pinpoint location of the jack rabbit I'm chasing out in the desert :wink:

It's actually just a bad shadow on the slide stop pin, here's a better photo... (click here)


Sorry Olsherm, we just totally hijacked your post, hope you enjoy the new R1, I'd like to get a hold of one if they ever come to CA...

 

[revhigh]

That's the communications port for the laser range finder that can interface directly with my PLGR to give me a pinpoint location of the jack rabbit I'm chasing out in the desert :wink:

Why didn't you just say that in the first place !!

REV