Elmer Keith wanna-be?

[steve b]

CraigC, I haven't yet bought a custom handgun. I may at some point, to get a .480 S.A.. If I do, any finer touches added will be things I've thought of myself. If I do, I will consider it a modified Ruger, not a custom gun. As I said, I was scratching my head, and open to opinions. steve b

 

[CraigC]

By that logic, everything is a "modified something". Very, very few guns are actually built from scratch. Fortunately, most good ideas have already been born by others and that is why we strive to learn from them. Rather than blindly blazing our own trails. I guess I'm having a hard time understanding your hang-up about this. Maybe you need to read Bowen's book?

Is this really any less of a "custom gun" because it started life as a USFA Flat-Top Target, or because it's a replica of Keith's #5? Hardly!!!

 

[Lee Martin]

Ya, I agree with Craig. Customs don't have to be one-of-a-kind. If what you want is spot on to what someone else has done, it's still a custom.

Take this 500 Linebaugh I built last year:

It's pure Bowen Nimrod, but I still consider it to be custom.

 

[steve b]

Our opinions are just gonna vary. I'm OK with that, and enjoy your postings. steve b

 

[CraigC]

And a five-shot .480 Ruger single action surely qualifies as "custom"! I can see arguing the point if it's just shortening a barrel, installing a Belt Mt basepin or doing an action job but a five-shot, like the .500 Lee posted, is most definitely custom.

 

[steve b]

I very much like the revolver pictured above and you may call it whatever you choose, and most will agree with you. I'd like something like it in .480. steve b

 

[Lee Martin]

Funny you guys should mention 5-shot 480's. I'm building one right now. Same configuration as the 500 I posted above.

 

[CraigC]

Lee, go ahead and make me a little 4" roundbutt Bisley .480 while you're at it. I'd like to sling 425's at a sedate 900-1000fps. Check is in the mail.

 

[Lee Martin]

Wish I had an FFL so I could oblige . I like that idea though Craig....sounds really slick.

 

[CraigC]

Something about a short barrelled .475 or .500 for running under 1000fps just appeals to me for some reason. Probably because of the sweet blued 4" Redhawk .50Spl Taffin wrote about. Might have to go dig that old issue out. If I ever have one built though, it will be a Bisley, rather than a Redhawk but the concept and appeal is the same.

 

[surveyor47]

There are people on this board who are advocating heavy loads for custom guns. In other cases theya re advocating loads for Rugers, which are above published reloading data, eating into the safety factors built into the gun. That is the wrong approach to reloading, because it assumes that high pressure loads will not make it into a weaker gun. With certain exceptions, my practice is to load for the weakest gun I own.

I have investigated too many accidents where unmodified industrial equipment in good condition has failed with loadings well under the safety factor. I will never ever believe that a safety factor is any gurantee against failure, nor will I ever endorse the practice of eating into safety factors. A safety factor simply reduces the liklihood of a catastrophic failure- it does not eliminate the risk.

Craig C, rant your heart out. You have ZERO creability with me.

For everyone ele, my suggestion is to check loadings advocated over the internet with Hodgdon or with Sierra. All it takes is a simple phone call.

For what it is worth, I have studied loading data published by Hodgdon and have used them to approach the magical 1000 fps with standard 38 Special loadings with 158 grain cast bullets. I have had to reduce these loadings very slightly due to case sticking and high pressure events in some pretty strong revolvers. Since I am already getting sticking and occasional flattened primers at standard pressures, there is no point in going to +P loadings with these guns. It simply wont work. It probably work for a Ruger GP100, but not for a K-frame S&W, but I am looking for loadings that will work in any of my guns- not just one.

 

[Ruger4Life]

Go ahead and load for the weakest gun you own, for that is certainly a safe approach to handloading. That does not mean that everyone should follow your example, or they are not safely handloading ! I say, to each his own!

Some of us own custom Rugers that eat heavy "Ruger Only" loads like candy, with no issues. And we enjoy shooting and hunting with them. This does not mean that we advocate heavy loads for non-customized Rugers. Nor does it mean that we have "Zero credability".

 

[Lee Martin]

My practice is to load for the weakest gun I own.

And that's a good approach if you can't segregate your loads....I don't blame you one bit.

Now I've become pretty proficient at labeling my ammo. For instance, I have 45 Colt that range from SAA, to Ruger only, to 60,000 PSI 5-shot customs. You can even visually segregate using different bullet types. You know, 255's for SAA guns, SSKs for the Ruger only, and WFNs for the big 5-shot platforms.

Oh well, that's just a thought. To each is own.

 

[Lee Martin]

I have had to reduce these loadings very slightly due to case sticking and high pressure events in some pretty strong revolvers. Since I am already getting sticking and occasional flattened primers at standard pressures

And just a friendly piece of advice. Hard extraction can be gun specific and primer flattening is not a sound way to assess pressure. Without a pressure gauge, it's hard to play ballistician.

 

[5of7]

Flat primers in revolver ammunition is usually the result of headspace or of soft primers like the Federal 100 small pistol primer.

The art of handloading ammunition can be quite simple if one just sticks to loads that have already been tested and tried. It can also get quite complicated when one goes beyond that point and ventures into the area of "Ruger only" loads or if he attempts to extrapolate data from one cartridge to another.....it is complicated, but it is not impossible or even dangerous if the handloader understands things like sectional density, co-efficient of friction, loading density, burning rates and many other things.

Surveyer47....it is one thing to tout safe loading techniques and procedure and to use them yourself, but it is quite another to brand other people as reckless and dangerous handloaders without knowing what these other people have learned over the years or their IQ or what their background is in the field of handloading. 8)

 

[Lee Martin]

Surveyer47....it is one thing to tout safe loading techniques and procedure and to use them yourself, but it is quite another to brand other people as reckless and dangerous handloaders without knowing what these other people have learned over the years or their IQ or what their background is in the field of handloading. 8)

Excellent point. I've developed more than a few wildcats over the years and obviously never had reloading manuals to refer to:

All of these are high intensity rounds, yet I've yet to have a single failure. Comes down to common sense, meticulous load assembly, and years of experience.

 

[CraigC]

There are people on this board who are advocating heavy loads for custom guns. In other cases theya re advocating loads for Rugers, which are above published reloading data, eating into the safety factors built into the gun.

Nobody said a damn thing about loads in this thread until YOU brought it up.

Bottom line is that the margin of safety is no different than any other "magnum". The difference is that the .44Spl's industry standard pressure rating is unnecessarily very low. All "we" advocate is taking advantage of its potential in appropriate guns. Regardless of what the ignorant think, it is not running on the ragged edge.

 

[contender]

As I mentioned, Lee has made some excellent points.

When it comes to reloading, or should I say, manufacturing our own ammo, we have to live by our choices. If a person chooses to load for their weakest gun, then that's their choice. If another person chooses to load loudkickenboomer wildcat loads, that too is their choice. Is either person wrong?
NO!!!
Is it safe????
It depends.
Wanton reckless disregard for the firearm quality, the pressures developed by powder/bullet combos, etc can POSSIBILY have dangerous results.
Carefull study of a caliber, pressures, designs of guns, etc and someone can easily develop something wonderful.
Is it right to belittle either person for their beliefs?
NO!!!!!
Custom guns, custom calibers, different design features, fancy engraving, etc all have their place among the factory stock, plain jane models.
I would not hesitate to try any of Lee's guns, (I wish I could!) Why? Because I know he has spent the time studying his projects.

So, while some folks may disagree on a subject, we can ALL be civil when discussing things. CraigC, I hope you can understand I was trying to keep things civil, (and yes, I have read most of the stuff around here at one time or another,) so as to keep the discussion healthy, AND polite. A person's tone in print can be misunderstood. With the recent discussions about how this Forum has suffered a bit recently in quality, I was hoping my previous post would help bring things back into a more polite discussion. Those that know me, know that in person I can be quite colorful if I get excited. However, when I type out anything, I realize I'm being viewed by thousands of folks. I like to keep this Forum friendly & the best so as to attract the best folks. Your choices of four letter (& 3 letter) words has been used before, even here. However, I do hope we ALL can start returning to a more polite Forum. It was the overall tone you were using with those words that I hoped you would try & adjust. I can FULLY appreciate your arguments, and I do actually agree with you. Please realize I was just hoping you could tone it down a little.

Just trying to keep the Forum the best,,,,!

 

[CraigC]

I understand and appreciate all that. I'm all for personal choice, it is the core of what our country was founded upon. It is up to the individual to decide and hopefully always will be. However, what I cannot abide is the spreading of misinformation and sometimes downright lies. Especially when it gets repeated and repeated and repeated. Particularly when done so in a completely unrelated thread, like this one. Hence the tone of my posts to surveyor. He destroyed his S&W model 19. For this I am sorry but that does not give license to manufacture a hate campaign against some of our most revered industry folk and the work they have done. Particularly when what you say is 180° from 80yrs of real, practical use. IMHO, a handful of "damns and hells" is far less detrimental to the integrity of this forum than lies and falsehoods. In ten years, when people search for Elmer Keith and the .44Spl, they will find this garbage. Some might actually believe it.

As I said, this was not a thread about heavy loads until surveyor made it one, strictly to grind his axe. Because he has no interest in the topic at hand, only mud-slinging.

 

[steve b]

Gotta be time to take the dog for a walk... steve b