Question on/for FFL

[Hawk-in-Wi]

yesterday I was on Gunbroker and came across a auction (pistol) that I was going to bid on until I read the seller description which said (copy and paste )>>>>>>>>>>

This item must be shipped to a current licensed FFL dealer in the state of where you live, There is NO exception! We must receive a copy of the FFL dealer's license DIRECTLY FROM THE FFL DEALER before we can ship your item.Please note that we must receive payment within 3 days of sale and in the manner of which has been specified otherwise the item will be relisted. ,


If you make a purchase of an item that is not legal where you live, you may not receive a refund.

OK , I know that unless its a old gun that that qualifies as a antique all guns must go to a FFL ,, no problem with that, but I do have a problem with his "DIRECTLY FROM THE FFL DEALER " and his "If you make a purchase of an item that is not legal where you live, you may not receive a refund" statement .. So I sent him a email about these thing and this is his answer .

again copy and paste

Thanks for your comment,

[ The reason that this is required is that is important the FFL receiving the item is aware and willing to receive the firearm. When items show up without any notice or indication, often they can be refused. Because the license is held with the FFL, they need to acknowledge and accept the transaction. Many FFLs today will not even send their FFL certificate without first receiving the sending FFL's certificate. It is important to follow the similar request of Gun Broker also if you want to be a verified FFL dealer with their organization. This is not about the law; this is about procedure and protocol to keep everyone legal. There are many regulations to follow for the ATF. ]


yes I know that the sending FFL must include/ or send a copy of their FFL to the receiving FFL but the part in bold is just pure BS
what do you guys think / have to say and if you are a FFL please state that you are so i know if the answer is coming from a business point of view or just a personal one .
and yes i know a FFL can make up their own rules but that doesn't mean their BS rules won't cost them sells

 

[peachhead]

I'm not really sure of your question.

As a seller, I do not ship anything until I have communicated with the FFL that I have been directed to ship to and received a copy of their FFL via email. I will send them a copy of mine if they ask; otherwise, I put a copy in the box.
I have received plenty of shipments from retailers and I have no clue they're coming. It does make life a little more exciting. It would be nice if everyone who bought something online with the intention of shipping it to me, their FFL, would call me and give me a heads up. However, that does not always happen. The difference is, those retailers already have a copy of my FFL on file. When dealing with gun broker, that is not always the case.
It's a pretty simple process. Not sure what it is that has made you mad.

 

[Hawk-in-Wi]

the statement that they want the FFL "DIRECTLY FROM THE FFL DEALER that is going to receive said firearm , that they are not willing to have it come from the buyer along with his payment or from said buyer in the form of a email or fax , and also that if they think some thing is not legal to have in your state that they have the right to refuse to refund your payment

I don't see where you're going from as that NOT being a problem

sorry about the all bold , computer didn't want to go back to just plain txt

 

[Dan in MI]

Former FFL. Why is this such a big deal? FFL needs to be sure he's dealing with a legitimate and on board dealer.

Just because you are honest and above board doesn't mean everyone else is.

Finally, his sandbox, his sand. Play by his rules or play somewhere else.

 

[hittman]

I think the GunBroker seller is correct in every aspect.

I put together the selling FFL with my receiving FFL and *poof* there's nothing for me to do except 1. Pay and 2. Wait for my FFL to get the gun.

 

[Hawk-in-Wi]

Finally, his sandbox, his sand. Play by his rules or play somewhere else.

I said I knew that and that Is one reason i told him to go pound sand , If I have to have MY FFL guy send his FFL separate from my payment , just so this guy can say he got it direct from the receiving FFL when it's perfecting legal for me to send it along with payment , I'm not going to do that and yes I can sure in the world take my money else where which is what I did

 

[hittman]

FFLs in this day and age ( and rightfully so ) are hesitant to pass out copies of their FFL.

As a consumer, I don't NEED my guys license and don't care to have the liability IF it's lost or stolen.

It's not the 90's anymore. This is one case where ( to me ) electronics are GREAT.

 

[Dan in MI]

Finally, his sandbox, his sand. Play by his rules or play somewhere else.

I said I knew that and that Is one reason i told him to go pound sand , If I have to have MY FFL guy send his FFL separate from my payment , just so this guy can say he got it direct from the receiving FFL when it's perfecting legal for me to send it along with payment , I'm not going to do that and yes I can sure in the world take my money else where which is what I did

So hand payment to the FFL and send it one envelope.

 

[kentucky yeti]

Nearly every dealer that is registered on GB has their FFL on file there, and they send it electronically to the receiving FFL. Even here where I live, in the middle of nowhere- the two FFL's here both do exactly that when I get a gun on GB. They used to give me a current copy of their FFL to put in the letter with my payment, but now it is instantaneously done online.

 

[Kevin]

I'm not an FFL, and I can't understand what the big deal is? Everything sounds legitimate.

I can understand the seller not accepting copies of an FFL from someone else because who knows if it's counterfeit or not? Coming direct from the receiving FFL is just another level of security for the seller.

 

[arfmel]

My local FFL is a friend. His protocol is to email a copy of his license to the shipping dealer. Quick and easy. I have no objection to it whatsoever.

 

[Hawk-in-Wi]

So hand payment to the FFL and send it one envelope.

are you willing to drive 60 plus miles just to make some seller happy that he gets the FFL from the receiving dealer ? I'm not and for the rest of you that says get it thru Gunbroker , re - read his answer >> it has to come direct from the Receiving dealer NOT from Gunbroker or any one else

my receiving dealer has his FFL on file with gunbroker , that's not good enough as the seller said in his email and in the auction, IT HAS to come direct from the receiving FFL

 

[hittman]

Around here in my small Midwest town the FFLs don't snail mail anything …. All done by email.
How it SHOULD work is you mail your payment and the FFLs email each other their licenses.
Plenty simple.

 

[87flht]

I have had 3 firearms sent to three different ( local to me ) FFL's and each time before the transaction I called or saw them . And they were like ( no big deal )

 

[kentucky yeti]

So hand payment to the FFL and send it one envelope.

are you willing to drive 60 plus miles just to make some seller happy that he gets the FFL from the receiving dealer ? I'm not and for the rest of you that says get it thru Gunbroker , re - read his answer >> it has to come direct from the Receiving dealer NOT from Gunbroker or any one else

my receiving dealer has his FFL on file with gunbroker , that's not good enough as the seller said in his email and in the auction, IT HAS to come direct from the receiving FFL

Well, if your FFL won't email a copy directly to the seller, that is on him. You don't have to drive 60 miles for your FFL to email a copy to the seller. And if the seller doesn't want to accept a validated FFL from GB, then you are within your rights to just pass on his item. From what I see written here- if your FFL guy emailed a copy of his FFL straight to the seller, and you mailed your payment from home (if you don't use a pay service online)- it should be a hassle-free transaction. You wouldn't drive 60+ miles until the firearm was received by your FFL and you went to pick it up- correct? Maybe I missed something.

 

[Dan in MI]

Have you contacted the seller to see if a GB or emailed copy is ok? That may be a pre-emptive note to weed out the non-buying bidders.

Depending on the gun a 60 mile drive to complete the transaction is nothing. But then I used to commute 58 miles one way so I have no issue driving.

 

[Mobuck]

Way back when--it sometimes occurred that a dealer would hand one of his 'good customers' a signed copy of his FFL. The customer would then use the license to buy and have guns shipped to the FFL address. Not exactly how it's supposed to work. I didn't do that but knew some who did w/o any repercussions. There's also the possibility that someone could do some creative copying and switch addresses creating a very felonious outcome.

 

[Hawk-in-Wi]

There's also the possibility that someone could do some creative copying and switch addresses creating a very felonious outcome.>>>>>>>>>>

how would that be possible when dealers are suppose to use the ATF Federal Firearms License Search ???????

FFLeZCheck 3.1.2 - Federal Firearms License Search

before they ship a firearm??????????? all a dealer has to do is put in the first 3 and last 5 numbers of a FFL License to verify that is correct in all ways

all you FFLs do use this don't you ??????

 

[Mobuck]

I was forced out of business by ATF in 2012 well before the wizardry of 'ezcheck' but there's no 'requirement' for more than a paper copy of FFL to transfer that I'm aware of.

 

[Dan in MI]

While the age of electronics has made information more accessible there is no requirement to use it. I know a couple dealers that don't even have a computer in the building.