44-40, 44 Mag, 45LC
- Thread starter gasmandave
- Start date
Help Support Ruger Forum:
jgt
Buckeye
There were several wildcat rounds being used at the time the 444 was introduced by Marlin. A 44 Van Houten was one such round made up using a 30-40 Krag case. But prior to that the bp round 44-77 was a fairly popular round used in Sharps rifles.
In may of 1872 the Ordnance Department started testing a variety of black powder cartridges for possible use as a military round. They compared streight tapered cases as well as bottlenecked case rounds in 40 through 45 caliber using bullets from 290 to 484 grains. This work was summerized in a report fulfilling Special Order Number 107 to determine a proper caliber for small arms. Ultimately the 45-70 was chosen for the army's purpose. In this report there was a round test fired in gun number 15 with a streight tapered 2.3" rimmed case, with a .430 diameter 365 grain bullet that bore a remarkable resemblance to what would later be called the 444 marlin differing only a few thousandths in certain key diamentions. While some have discribed the 444 marlin as a modern 45-70, the historical record shows it to predate the adaptation of the 45-70 as the official military cartridge.
This concept was revisited in 1882 with the Manyard 40-70 cartridge loaded with a 430 grain lead bullet at just over 1300 fps. This was a rimmed, streight .451 diameter case, 2.45" long that shot a .422 diameter bullet. This is slightly longer and narrower than the 444 marlin 2.25" tapered case, but would have been very similar in capacity. Even thought smokeless powder, high pressure loads, muzzle velocities over 2000fps, and modern heat treated steels were well into the future, the precedent for a rimmed, streight walled 21/4" .43 caliber cartridge case was established in the 1870's and 1880's. The facts of the material were gathered from the writings of Glen Fryxell and John Taffin.
In may of 1872 the Ordnance Department started testing a variety of black powder cartridges for possible use as a military round. They compared streight tapered cases as well as bottlenecked case rounds in 40 through 45 caliber using bullets from 290 to 484 grains. This work was summerized in a report fulfilling Special Order Number 107 to determine a proper caliber for small arms. Ultimately the 45-70 was chosen for the army's purpose. In this report there was a round test fired in gun number 15 with a streight tapered 2.3" rimmed case, with a .430 diameter 365 grain bullet that bore a remarkable resemblance to what would later be called the 444 marlin differing only a few thousandths in certain key diamentions. While some have discribed the 444 marlin as a modern 45-70, the historical record shows it to predate the adaptation of the 45-70 as the official military cartridge.
This concept was revisited in 1882 with the Manyard 40-70 cartridge loaded with a 430 grain lead bullet at just over 1300 fps. This was a rimmed, streight .451 diameter case, 2.45" long that shot a .422 diameter bullet. This is slightly longer and narrower than the 444 marlin 2.25" tapered case, but would have been very similar in capacity. Even thought smokeless powder, high pressure loads, muzzle velocities over 2000fps, and modern heat treated steels were well into the future, the precedent for a rimmed, streight walled 21/4" .43 caliber cartridge case was established in the 1870's and 1880's. The facts of the material were gathered from the writings of Glen Fryxell and John Taffin.
wleoff
Bearcat
About fifteen years ago, I was competing in a SASS match using a Marlin in 44-40 and two Vaqueros in 45 Colt. I accidently mixed the ammo at the loading table and fired a 44-40 in one of my Vaqueros. When it went off, I knew something was wrong. Besides sounding weird, it split the 44-40 case. Next week, I bought a Marlin in 45 Colt and have not mixed calibers in SASS since. Now maybe 99 out of a 100 times it wouldn't hurt the case, but I'm not trying it again. Whip King SASS #9662
Were do people get these lame brain ideas. This one to me is dumb 44-40 in a 45 colt it may fit but why would you want to. I'm lost for words. ps
Driftwood Johnson
Blackhawk
Because the world is full of self proclaimed experts who warn about the dire consequences of attempting something even though they have no first hand knowledge about the subject. I reiterate, I have done it, the gun did not blow up, the cases did not split, and the world did not come to an end. And I even managed to hit the target.
EDK
Single-Sixer
Some of these little experiments will teach you something. Elmer Keith told a story of someone firing a 38/40 in a 45 Colt in an emergency. Skeeter Skelton told something similar also. IIRC, he also did an experiment with 44/40 in 45 Colts. There used to be a lot interesting stuff in his columns and articles in SHOOTING TIMES.
AND Skeeter found that a 44 MAGNUM with an extreme crimp would chamber in a Single Action Army 44 SPECIAL! BE CAREFUL about getting your ammo mixed up!
AND Skeeter found that a 44 MAGNUM with an extreme crimp would chamber in a Single Action Army 44 SPECIAL! BE CAREFUL about getting your ammo mixed up!
CraigC
Hawkeye
I don't think anybody suggested that anything catastrophic would happen. Everybody just stated that it's not a good idea, which it isn't unless it's an emergency, and that the cartridges in question are not interchangeable. Which is also true. There's certainly no 'good' reason to do it.Driftwood Johnson":1qkt8f2k said:
As I stated before and wleoff confirms with experience, the likelihood of splitting the case is very high.wleoff":1qkt8f2k said:
It's very interesting that you tried it just to see what it would do but I'm afraid that fact doesn't make everybody that simply said "don't do it" an idiot or Chicken Little type as you imply.
I have an acquaintance, who thinks he is a gun expert. This guy keeps telling me that a 41 magnum can be fired in a .410 shotgun. OK, why would you want to do that? Yes this guy is dumb on many different levels.
gramps
gramps
Similar threads
