Guilty of Involuntary Manslaughter

[caryc]

I agree that the buck should stop with her. Not just because it was her job, but also because she should have instructed Baldwin in safe handling of the gun, which would include ALWAYS checking for YOURSELF.

If Baldwin was an expert on gun handling safety, there would be no need for an armorer would there? As many of you guys stated the responsibility is all on him. So, why have an armorer?

 

[BearBiologist]

If Baldwin was an expert on gun handling safety, there would be no need for an armorer would there? As many of you guys stated the responsibility is all on him. So, why have an armorer?

As a veteran, I can testify that double and triple checks are always done. Anyone who has military service knows this!

Using that reasoning, why do ranges require you to step back from the firing line during ceasefire (or similar precautions)? Why have manual safeties??

 

[caryc]

As a veteran, I can testify that double and triple checks are always done. Anyone who has military service knows this!

Using that reasoning, why do ranges require you to step back from the firing line during ceasefire (or similar precautions)? Why have manual safeties??

Ahaaa! So, it would seem that the armorer was first in line when it comes to responsibility She's responsible for the gun and the ammo in it.

 

[BearBiologist]

Ahaaa! So, it would seem that the armorer was first in line when it comes to responsibility She's responsible for the gun and the ammo in it.

Obviously NOT a veteran! (In a training situation @ Ft Ord!)
1. You receive your weapon from the arms room personnel. Serial number is checked against your "arms card" and you inspect magazine and action and weapon is placed on "safe"/No magazine is inserted.
2. At the range, you are issued a magazine and 20 rounds of ammo.
3. You load magazine and it is checked by your Drill Sergeant or Range master.
4. Magazine is inserted but action is open.
5. Range Master calls "Ready on the Right" No negative answers. Calls "Ready on the Left" No negative answers
6. Range Master calls "Lock and load one 20 round magazine!
7. Commence firing (rapid fire, slow fire, etc.)
8. After shots are fired, RM calls Cease fire and all actions are opened and checked!
9. LORD HELP YOU if you have an accidental discharge on the range!! Not the armorer in the arms room, not the Range Master, not the Drill Sergeant!! YOU!!!!

Act stupidly at a private or public range and YOU will be kicked off! Not the dude in the arms/ammo room, not the cashier, not the Rangmaster!!!! YOU!!!!

 

[Cholo]

This thread is like the movie Groundhog Day LOL

 

[eveled]

Act stupidly at a private or public range Not the dude in the arms/ammo room, not the cashier, not the Rangmaster!!!!

Are those people paid to make sure there is no live ammo anywhere?

The armorers job on a movie set is to make sure there is no live ammo on the set. She failed at her job.

 

[protoolman]

Based on the testimony given during the trial there was no shooting of live rounds anywhere on the "Rust" set. This rumor got started because prior to the start of "Rust" two other movies were being shot in Texas, "1883" and The Old Ones", Hannah was the Armorer on "The Old Ones." The producer of "1883" owned a large ranch where the movie was being shot, he wanted to let some of his actors get the feel of what it was like to actually fire the real weapons that were being used in the movie. He had a range set up on another part of his ranch away from the movie set where this training and shooting would take place. He hired Seth Kenny of PDQ props and Firearms along with Thell Reed (Hannah's step-father) who is considered to be one of the best movie armorers and firearms trainers to conduct this training and live fire event. They acquired the ammunition from Jay Swenson who provides dummy ammo for movies along with live ammo for other uses. He send down an assortment of ammo, various calibers and configurations. He provided three different 45 LC loads.

After this training and shooting was completed the extra live ammo was placed in a ammo box and plastic tote box and taken back to PDQ Props where it was stored in a bathroom away from all his other dummy and blank ammunition. PDQ provided weapons, blanks, dummies and other items to all three movie sets.

There was never any mention of whether Hannah was present at this shooting event. After completing the filming of "The Old Ones" all the weapons, dummy ammo, leather gear, blanks, etc. that had been rented from PDQ props was returned to them. Mixed in with this stuff was a box containing leather gear that belonged to Hannah which included a couple of holster that had dummy rounds in some of the loops. This leather gear was later used on "Rust."

The shooting on "Rust" happened on Oct 21 2021. The props van where the gun safe was was not searched until Oct. 27. PDQ Props was not searched until late Nov. five weeks after the shooting. The FBI analyzed the live ammo from PDQ (1883) and the other five live rounds found on the "Rust" set. The 1883 ammo was loaded with Trailboss powder the five rounds from "Rust" had a different flake powder like Unique, they didn't determine just what powder, only that it wasn't Trailboss.
The only 45 LC live ammo taken from PDQ during the search was loaded with a semi-wadcutter bullet and the ammo from "Rust" had round nose bullets similar to the dummy rounds. I guess we are to assume that the other two style of 45 LC at the 1883 shoot were used up and none were brought back to PDQ.

After the shooting the Prop Master Sara Zachary, who was a PDQ employee, unloaded two other Colt style revolvers and threw the ammo into the trash, not two boxes of ammo. She had only about ten minutes of training by Seth Kenny on how to load and unload a single-action revolver.

No other locations were ever searched to try and find where those six rounds on the "Rust" set came from.

Hannah used a very disorganized Rubbermaid cart to transport weapons and ammo. This cart was frequently left unattended with weapons, blanks, dummy rounds and leather gear on it. The prop truck had a safe in it for the weapons but blanks and dummies were not all stored in the safe. The prop truck was left open during the day during filming.

This whole set was a disaster waiting to happen. It was never determined just where the live rounds came from. Anybody could have dropped them on the cart, placed them in the prop truck or loaded them in the loops on a holster of bandolier.

Hannah should have check the dummies better, she should have only worked as an armorer, not assisted props. There should have been better training for everybody.

There is a lot of blame to go around.

I watch the trial from beginning to end and learned a lot.

It was almost painful listening to the "Experts" explaining the operation of a single-action revolver, how to load and un-load it, how to check if it is empty, how to convert a live round to a dummy and vice versa to the jurors.

One think that came out of the FBI testing of the revolver used by Baldwin was that it was in excellent condition and could not have fired unless the trigger was pulled. It could not have fired unless the trigger was pulled with a fully cocked hammer.

Wow, nice to hear all the details that no news outlet has given us. In the end the criminal prosecutions are one thing and the lawsuits/ civil actions will be another. I expect Baldwin will be found guilty of same charges except will have better lawyers so probably will get no jail time. However he or his insurance have deeper pockets so the lawsuits will be heavier. I hope Hannah is able to switch gears and change careers. I'm sure Thell Reed raised her better than this. I think Baldwin better stick to safer movie subjects in the future. Maybe he can start in a Care Bear movie!

 

[BearBiologist]

Are those people paid to make sure there is no live ammo anywhere?

The armorers job on a movie set is to make sure there is no live ammo on the set. She failed at her job.

Sometimes! That's like asking if the stunt coordinator is paid to make no one has their own cars on a set! Does he have the authority to search people for live ammo??? NO!!! How do we know Baldwin wasn't the one to sneak live ammo onto the set?

 

[eveled]

To many morons here. I'm done with this.

 

[Dan in MI]

OK so we blame the armorer.

WHO handed AB the gun? Was it the armorer? If no, why was protocol broken? What was protocol, since he seems to have a different view than other actors?

There are multiple people in the wrong here. How and why things happened the way they did comes back to the whole organization producing the film.

Who was in charge? Who determined protocol? Who was responsible for making sure protocol was followed?

Sure sounds like there should be a 1/2 dozen trials for involuntary manslaughter.

 

[the_leper_colony]

... I'm done with this.

Same thing seems to happen on every firearms forum - as I noted in post #36, "the whole thing has been argued to death". And what we think doesn't really matter anyway, because it will be up to the judge & jury to decide things.

As always IMHO, FWIW, YMMV, etc.

 

[Ride1949]