gasmandave
Single-Sixer
I read that you can fire 44-40 in 45LC Rugers, can you also fire them in 44 Mag pistols? I know you can fire 44 spl and 44 Russian in Mag pistols but what about 44-40?
44-40, 44 Mag, 45LC
- Thread starter gasmandave
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xtratoy
Buckeye
this should help you figure it out. 44-40, http://stevespages.com/jpg/cd4440winchester.jpg and 44 Magnum, http://stevespages.com/jpg/cd44remingtonmagnum.jpg
CraigC
Hawkeye
Where did you read this??? No on both counts.
Aggie01
Blackhawk
gasmandave":1pyg9prp said:
Just because something CAN be done, doesn't mean you SHOULD.
Please do not fire 44-40 in a .45 Colt.
The only thing you should fire 44-40 in is a .44-40, (.44 WCF).
TiteGroups
Blackhawk
- Joined
- Dec 23, 2009
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Wow, you need to start getting your info from somewhere else. Will a 44-40 fire in a gun chambered in 45LC? Probably. Very bad idea for many reasons the most obvious is the bullet diameter will be way too small to engage the rifling or create the gas seal needed, not to mention the fact the case diameter is way too small to seal the cylinder and possibly could burst due to over expansion. In short, fire 45LC only in guns chambered for it. 44-40 only in guns chambered for that round. Guns chambered for .44 magnum can also fire .44 special,, and probably .44 russian, the russian is too short for me, personally. 44mag. .44spl. and .44 russian all use the same basic bullet diameter. .44-40 is typically a few thousandth smaller. I'm sure someone will take the time to elaborate more on this soon.
The only cartridges that can be fired in a variety of single action pistols of different calibers, are the BLANK cartridges used in Hollywood movies, called '5-in-one' cartridges. That may be where you heard this. NEVER try that with actual loaded rounds!!!
EarlFH
EarlFH
maxpress
Buckeye
44mag will shoot 44spl and 44russian
454 will shoot 45 colt and 45 schofield
44-40 is in a class of its own though with its tapered case and .427-428 bullets instead of the regular .429-430 diameter used in the other .44s
im wondering if you read that 44-40 could have the neck expanded to fit in .44 but its really an oddball bullet and case.
454 will shoot 45 colt and 45 schofield
44-40 is in a class of its own though with its tapered case and .427-428 bullets instead of the regular .429-430 diameter used in the other .44s
im wondering if you read that 44-40 could have the neck expanded to fit in .44 but its really an oddball bullet and case.
tek4260
Buckeye
It amazes me that someone would even dream that one up.
Driftwood Johnson
Blackhawk
Howdy
There are a lot of opinions here from folks who have not actually done it.
Yes, I have fired 44-40 rounds out of a 45 Colt revolver. Just for the fun of it. Clearly, if you know anything about the cartridges, the 44-40 was not designed go be shot in a 45 Colt. But it can be done.
No, the gun did not blow up. Far from it, since the bullet did not seal the bore, pressure was less than with a 45 Colt, not more. There was no sign of overpressure on the spent cases. They were ruined though, they fireformed and had a reverse taper to them, fully expanding to 45 caliber at the neck, but maintaining most of their original dimensions from there down. And even though the bullets did not engage the rifling, accuracy was no where near as bad as some might suppose. Five rounds fired off hand at a standard steel Cowboy Action Plate all hit the target. I ain't claiming it was accurate, but stories of bullets rattling down the bore and zooming off to parts unknown are simply not true. About as accurate as a smooth bore flintlock pistol. Which were known to kill plenty of people at close range.
I would not hesitate to do it again, it was fun.
No, you cannot chamber a 44-40 in a 44 Mag chamber. The 44-40 is much fatter (technical term) at the rear than the 44 Mag.
There are a lot of opinions here from folks who have not actually done it.
Yes, I have fired 44-40 rounds out of a 45 Colt revolver. Just for the fun of it. Clearly, if you know anything about the cartridges, the 44-40 was not designed go be shot in a 45 Colt. But it can be done.
No, the gun did not blow up. Far from it, since the bullet did not seal the bore, pressure was less than with a 45 Colt, not more. There was no sign of overpressure on the spent cases. They were ruined though, they fireformed and had a reverse taper to them, fully expanding to 45 caliber at the neck, but maintaining most of their original dimensions from there down. And even though the bullets did not engage the rifling, accuracy was no where near as bad as some might suppose. Five rounds fired off hand at a standard steel Cowboy Action Plate all hit the target. I ain't claiming it was accurate, but stories of bullets rattling down the bore and zooming off to parts unknown are simply not true. About as accurate as a smooth bore flintlock pistol. Which were known to kill plenty of people at close range.
I would not hesitate to do it again, it was fun.
No, you cannot chamber a 44-40 in a 44 Mag chamber. The 44-40 is much fatter (technical term) at the rear than the 44 Mag.
CraigC
Hawkeye
I think anyone who knows anything about sixguns knows that you 'can' fire .44-40 (and .38-40 for that matter) in a .45Colt. There's no good reason to. Accuracy will obviously be dismal and the cases will split but it will go "bang" and not destroy the gun. Actually pressure will be very low and guess what, you don't have to actually do it to know all that and advise someone NOT to. :roll:
Driftwood Johnson
Blackhawk
Nope, they did not split, they merely mushroomed out in diameter at the neck.
jgt
Buckeye
The short answer is, a 44 mag can fire 44 russian, 44 colt, 44special, and 44 magnum. You could use a 44 american in a pinch but it would be a sorry fit compared to the others. A 44-40 is like a 45 colt necked down to .427 so will work in a 45 but not a 44. While we are at it a 444 is not 44 mag case streched. The 44 mag is a streight walled case and the 444 is tapered and was parented by black powder rounds.
. Just for the fun of it of course
gasmandave
Single-Sixer
I had read that same info as everyone that posted here. One atricle stated you could fire 44-40 in a 45LC, bullet doesn't really fit the bore but @ close range it will work but ruin the brass but was still acurate up close. It was also a recomendation to use 44-40 in "Old" 45LC pistols as the loadings in "Old" 45LC's were black powder and not with the higher pressures of today's loadings. Modern 44-40's pressure run lower than modern 45LC and so were safer to shoot (for fun) in the older 45LC's
That's what generated my question.
I have a 45LC Blackhawk (I previously posted a picture) and I just bought a Super Blawkhawk. Both w/4 & 7/8 tubes. The 44 is stainless and has the round trigger guard.
That's what generated my question.
I have a 45LC Blackhawk (I previously posted a picture) and I just bought a Super Blawkhawk. Both w/4 & 7/8 tubes. The 44 is stainless and has the round trigger guard.
maxpress
Buckeye
Driftwood Johnson
Blackhawk
Howdy Again
Here are a couple of photos I found on my hard drive. For those who are not familiar with the 45 Colt and the 44-40, here is a photo. Left to right in the photo the cartridges are 44 Special, 45 Colt, and 44-40. You have to look very carefully to actually see the taper of the 44-40, it is barely a taper at all.
Here is a photo of one of the 44-40 cases I fired in the 45 Colt revolver. It is the one in the center. The case on the left is a 45 Colt, the case on the right is a 44-40, both having been fired in guns they were chambered for. The 44-40 in the center has bulged out at the case mouth to completely fill the 45 Colt chamber. But further down, the case has maintained its original dimensions. As you can see, there is no splitting at all of the 'expanded' 44-40 case. None of the five rounds I fired exhibited any splitting. But the mouth has expanded enough that it will never be sized back down by a 44-40 sizing die. The reason that only the case mouth bulged, and not the entire case is because 44-40 brass is extremely thin at the mouth. Only around .007 thick, vs around .012 thick for a 45 Colt. Further down, the case wall thickens, and that is the part that has maintained its original shape. But the very thin brass at the case mouth expanded to completely fill the 45 Colt chamber.
Test gun was a 2nd Generation Colt Single Action Army, with a 7 1/2" barrel, made in 1973. Chambered for 45 Colt. The load in the 44-40 round was 2.2CC (around 34 grains) of Schuetzen FFg Black Powder, under a 200 grain pure lead .428 diameter Mav-Dutchman Big Lube bullet lubed with SPG.
But knowing what I know about the 44-40 round, I would not hesitate to try one of my Smokeless rounds, with 7.5 grains of Unique under a 200 grain RNFP bullet either.
As far as accuracy is concerned, as I said, I was able to put 5 rounds onto a 16" square steel plate offhand at about 10 yards. I have no idea what the group size was. The bullets may even have been keyholing for all I know. But they still all hit the plate.
Why did I do it? Because I wanted to see for myself. I had always heard that trying this trick, the bullets would be so inaccurate that the shooter would not be able to hit anything. From the standpoint of Cowboy Action Shooting, accuracy was good enough that if I had run out of 45 Colt ammo that day, I could have continued the match with 44-40 without so much loss of accuracy that I would be missing targets. Since all my cowboy rifles are chambered for 44-40, I always have some of both rounds with me at a match.
No, I would not try to put a 45 Colt round into one of my 44-40 rifles. That is a different story. That is a guaranteed jam, the round would feed through the magazine, but would jam when the bolt tried to shove it into the chamber.
Here are a couple of photos I found on my hard drive. For those who are not familiar with the 45 Colt and the 44-40, here is a photo. Left to right in the photo the cartridges are 44 Special, 45 Colt, and 44-40. You have to look very carefully to actually see the taper of the 44-40, it is barely a taper at all.
Here is a photo of one of the 44-40 cases I fired in the 45 Colt revolver. It is the one in the center. The case on the left is a 45 Colt, the case on the right is a 44-40, both having been fired in guns they were chambered for. The 44-40 in the center has bulged out at the case mouth to completely fill the 45 Colt chamber. But further down, the case has maintained its original dimensions. As you can see, there is no splitting at all of the 'expanded' 44-40 case. None of the five rounds I fired exhibited any splitting. But the mouth has expanded enough that it will never be sized back down by a 44-40 sizing die. The reason that only the case mouth bulged, and not the entire case is because 44-40 brass is extremely thin at the mouth. Only around .007 thick, vs around .012 thick for a 45 Colt. Further down, the case wall thickens, and that is the part that has maintained its original shape. But the very thin brass at the case mouth expanded to completely fill the 45 Colt chamber.
Test gun was a 2nd Generation Colt Single Action Army, with a 7 1/2" barrel, made in 1973. Chambered for 45 Colt. The load in the 44-40 round was 2.2CC (around 34 grains) of Schuetzen FFg Black Powder, under a 200 grain pure lead .428 diameter Mav-Dutchman Big Lube bullet lubed with SPG.
But knowing what I know about the 44-40 round, I would not hesitate to try one of my Smokeless rounds, with 7.5 grains of Unique under a 200 grain RNFP bullet either.
As far as accuracy is concerned, as I said, I was able to put 5 rounds onto a 16" square steel plate offhand at about 10 yards. I have no idea what the group size was. The bullets may even have been keyholing for all I know. But they still all hit the plate.
Why did I do it? Because I wanted to see for myself. I had always heard that trying this trick, the bullets would be so inaccurate that the shooter would not be able to hit anything. From the standpoint of Cowboy Action Shooting, accuracy was good enough that if I had run out of 45 Colt ammo that day, I could have continued the match with 44-40 without so much loss of accuracy that I would be missing targets. Since all my cowboy rifles are chambered for 44-40, I always have some of both rounds with me at a match.
No, I would not try to put a 45 Colt round into one of my 44-40 rifles. That is a different story. That is a guaranteed jam, the round would feed through the magazine, but would jam when the bolt tried to shove it into the chamber.
TiteGroups
Blackhawk
- Joined
- Dec 23, 2009
- Messages
- 513
Sounds like someone loaded some .44-40 in their revolvers by accident and found out the hard way during the rifle part of the stage. Things like that never happen in Cowboy matches. Lol.
Driftwood Johnson
Blackhawk
No.
I shot the five rounds off after the match ended. It was no accident, I did it on purpose.
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