One Gone Way To Soon

[Wyandot Jim]

It is shame how wonderful times can go to a tragedy in an instant.
This fine Lady was killed in her and her husband's T-6 Texan on 7-29 while at the Oshkosh Fly-in. Not a lot of details other than she crashed into the lake while flying at 3000' with a passenger.
I did not know her but I do know the husband since he and and his Dad are friends with Son Trey and Grandson Chad. I can not imagine the lose to the family.

 

[jimbo1096]

So sad
Prayers for the families

 

[RC44Mag]

Heard about that, terrible

 

[Snake45]

Oh my. So sorry to hear about this.

 

[contender]

Dern,, that's tough! Prayers up for the family,, and I liked the poem too!

 

[Dave P.]

It was a rough Saturday at Oshkosh, the two people who died in the T-6 Jim posted about and two
others in a mid-air in the ultralight area. Sounded like maybe a couple of more injured in that accident
as well.
I read something that a witness to the T-6 thought it may have been a stall//spin deal that got them.
Sad events.

 

[Wyandot Jim]

It was a rough Saturday at Oshkosh, the two people who died in the T-6 Jim posted about and two
others in a mid-air in the ultralight area. Sounded like maybe a couple of more injured in that accident
as well.
I read something that a witness to the T-6 thought it may have been a stall//spin deal that got them.
Sad events.

Son and I were thinking the same. The Military Manual for our SNJ states not to enter a spin below 6500' since it can take up to 3000' to recover. A bad habit with the T-6/SNJ is if you get slow and pulling "Gs" in a left bank it will snap to the right and enter a spin. You must be aware of that at all times.
Since she did not have a lot of time in the T-6 and probably never did spin recovery because the T-6/SNJ is placard "Intentional Spins Prohibited"since it doesn't meet Part 23 spin recovery, (thank you FAA) it is possible that is what happened. The witness said it spun into the lake.
Still a shame no matter what the reason. The husband Hunter and his family are really good people. The Dad owns and operates a gun range along with being a Warbird guy. Hunter owns and operates a flight school and is also active in the Warbirds.

 

[Fox Mike]

One just never knows. A General from Aberdeen Proving Ground was flying a Piper PA-28 and crashed in a field, and died, in an accident last week. This was just up the road from me. The field he crashed in was on final to 0W3. No idea the cause.

 

[Hvymax]

They died living on a level that most will never understand. Funny thing about life is that nobody's getting out alive so LIVE while you are.

 

[Johnnu2]

My favorite portion of this well known prayer..........
".........Up, up the long, delirious, burning blue
I've topped the wind-swept heights with easy grace
Where never lark nor ever eagle flew—
And, while with silent lifting mind I've trod
The high untrespassed sanctity of space,
Put out my hand, and touched the face of God."

RIP beautiful pilot

J.

 

[Dave P.]

Son and I were thinking the same. The Military Manual for our SNJ states not to enter a spin below 6500' since it can take up to 3000' to recover. A bad habit with the T-6/SNJ is if you get slow and pulling "Gs" in a left bank it will snap to the right and enter a spin. You must be aware of that at all times.
Since she did not have a lot of time in the T-6 and probably never did spin recovery because the T-6/SNJ is placard "Intentional Spins Prohibited"since it doesn't meet Part 23 spin recovery, (thank you FAA) it is possible that is what happened. The witness said it spun into the lake.

Maybe 25 years ago I did several flights with a company doing aerobatic flights and mock dogfights in T-6s. What I was initially surprised by was
the suddenness and lack of clues ( at least to me with only a few hours in one ) when it would snap into a stall and the very hard jerk
on the stick when it did it followed by a small wrestling match with the stick initiating recovery.
My typical screw up would be getting slow pulling and then trying to yaw the nose with the rudder to get
my opponent into the gunsight....snap!....spent plenty of time climbing back to altitude.
Maybe with more time and practice the subtleties of the impending stall might have been learned.
I know if I ever owned one of these there would be plenty of hours up high screwing around doing accelerated stalls and recoveries.

 

[rugerguy]

Sad news G1 and know our thoughts and prayers with you and their family,,,,,,,,

 

[Wyandot Jim]

Yep all Texan drivers should be aware of what you have described. If they are not well, things can and will get real bad if you are at a low altitude. Altitude and speed are your friends. What you stated is probably what happened in this crash.
The Reiley family also has a BT-13 which I'm sure she had more time in than the T-6, since they have not owned the T-6 as long.
I have flown the BT some and it is a lot more forgiving than the T-6.

I remember the company that you flew the T-6 with.
I did the same thing in T-34 with my neighbor who worked for the Company and was a retired F-15 driver..
The company shut down after losing 2 planes due to wing failure and killing the owner. Sure was fun while it lasted. These accidents were what caused the AD and grounding of the T-34s.
Pulling hard roll and pitch at the same time caused the rear spar to fail.

 

[Snake45]

Maybe 25 years ago I did several flights with a company doing aerobatic flights and mock dogfights in T-6s. What I was initially surprised by was
the suddenness and lack of clues ( at least to me with only a few hours in one ) when it would snap into a stall and the very hard jerk
on the stick when it did it followed by a small wrestling match with the stick initiating recovery.
My typical screw up would be getting slow pulling and then trying to yaw the nose with the rudder to get
my opponent into the gunsight....snap!....spent plenty of time climbing back to altitude.
Maybe with more time and practice the subtleties of the impending stall might have been learned.
I know if I ever owned one of these there would be plenty of hours up high screwing around doing accelerated stalls and recoveries.

I'm amazed at how many times I've read the account of a WWII fighter pilot who expressed a thought similar to this: "After passing Advanced training in the T-6, moving up to the [P-40, P-47, P-51, F6F, F4U] wasn't really that big of a deal."

 

[WendyZXZ]

Sad news to hear. Prayers from Texas.

 

[Wyandot Jim]

I'm amazed at how many times I've read the account of a WWII fighter pilot who expressed a thought similar to this: "After passing Advanced training in the T-6, moving up to the [P-40, P-47, P-51, F6F, F4U] wasn't really that big of a deal."

Yep it's called The Pilot Maker for a reason. It did it's training job well.
By Bud Davisson.
Connie Edwards, long time sparkplug of the warbird movement and quintessential Texan is credited with saying, "Start out in a Bearcat, transition to the P-51 and then you're ready for the T-6."

Edwards was referring to the T–6's less-then-spotless reputation for ground handling. And he's right. Many civilians transitioning into fighter aircraft are amazed at how much easier fighters are to handle (in most situations, anyway) then the old Texan, a supposedly easily-tamed "trainer." When I got my chance to fly Mustangs, I was amazed and relieved to find this was absolutely the case.

If the P-51 had been the quantum jump up from the T-6 in ground handling difficulties that it was in aerial performance, my first Mustang hop would have culminated in a spectacular fire at the edge of the runway. Even if I kept control and survived the flight, I would have drowned in post-flight adrenaline flow. Obviously it didn't happen that way because the Mustang was such a fluffy kittens cat compared to the Texan.

I can't speak for others, but the Six had me so wired for abysmal ground handling that the Mustang was a breath of fresh air. There was nothing that big bird could do that would surprise me. Yes, "relieved" is definitely the right word.

Read more at

Flying the AT 6

Flying the AT 6 by Budd Davisson This is such a well written article I just had to include it in the ‘Pilot Stories’ It was written I believe in 1990 by Budd Davisson. His description of flying the T6 Harvard or AT6 (Advanced Trainer) is so engaging and informative, it really makes you feel […]

www.t6harvard.com

 

[Snake45]

Yep it's called The Pilot Maker for a reason. It did it's training job well.
By Bud Davisson.
Connie Edwards, long time sparkplug of the warbird movement and quintessential Texan is credited with saying, "Start out in a Bearcat, transition to the P-51 and then you're ready for the T-6."

Edwards was referring to the T–6's less-then-spotless reputation for ground handling. And he's right. Many civilians transitioning into fighter aircraft are amazed at how much easier fighters are to handle (in most situations, anyway) then the old Texan, a supposedly easily-tamed "trainer." When I got my chance to fly Mustangs, I was amazed and relieved to find this was absolutely the case.

If the P-51 had been the quantum jump up from the T-6 in ground handling difficulties that it was in aerial performance, my first Mustang hop would have culminated in a spectacular fire at the edge of the runway. Even if I kept control and survived the flight, I would have drowned in post-flight adrenaline flow. Obviously it didn't happen that way because the Mustang was such a fluffy kittens cat compared to the Texan.

I can't speak for others, but the Six had me so wired for abysmal ground handling that the Mustang was a breath of fresh air. There was nothing that big bird could do that would surprise me. Yes, "relieved" is definitely the right word.

Read more at

Flying the AT 6

Flying the AT 6 by Budd Davisson This is such a well written article I just had to include it in the ‘Pilot Stories’ It was written I believe in 1990 by Budd Davisson. His description of flying the T6 Harvard or AT6 (Advanced Trainer) is so engaging and informative, it really makes you feel […]

www.t6harvard.com

Very cool!

Here's another amazing fact about the advancement of aviation in the WWII decade:

In WWII, the T-6 was the AT-6, the A standing for Advanced. The typical T-6 trainee already had dozens, perhaps hundreds of hours in lesser airplanes such as the PT-17, BT-13, even Piper Cubs operated by the CPTP.

But by 1952, when my Dad did his flight training, the T-6/SNJ was THE USAF and Navy trainer. My Dad's first training flight in a T-6G was also his very first flight in any airplane of any kind.

And then they sent him to multi-engine training in...not a T-50 Bamboo Bomber or a C-45 Twin Beech, but the TB-25, which was a purpose-rebuilt B-25J.

To this day I'm awed by all of that. (And it probably explains why he was largely deaf for the last decade or two of his life.)

 

[HW11]

I read that earlier today. Very sad.

 

[Dave P.]

I

Yep it's called The Pilot Maker for a reason. It did it's training job well.
By Bud Davisson.
Connie Edwards, long time sparkplug of the warbird movement and quintessential Texan is credited with saying, "Start out in a Bearcat, transition to the P-51 and then you're ready for the T-6."

Edwards was referring to the T–6's less-then-spotless reputation for ground handling. And he's right. Many civilians transitioning into fighter aircraft are amazed at how much easier fighters are to handle (in most situations, anyway) then the old Texan, a supposedly easily-tamed "trainer." When I got my chance to fly Mustangs, I was amazed and relieved to find this was absolutely the case.

If the P-51 had been the quantum jump up from the T-6 in ground handling difficulties that it was in aerial performance, my first Mustang hop would have culminated in a spectacular fire at the edge of the runway. Even if I kept control and survived the flight, I would have drowned in post-flight adrenaline flow. Obviously it didn't happen that way because the Mustang was such a fluffy kittens cat compared to the Texan.

I can't speak for others, but the Six had me so wired for abysmal ground handling that the Mustang was a breath of fresh air. There was nothing that big bird could do that would surprise me. Yes, "relieved" is definitely the right word.

Read more at

Flying the AT 6

Flying the AT 6 by Budd Davisson This is such a well written article I just had to include it in the ‘Pilot Stories’ It was written I believe in 1990 by Budd Davisson. His description of flying the T6 Harvard or AT6 (Advanced Trainer) is so engaging and informative, it really makes you feel […]

www.t6harvard.com

Just read the article you linked, seems pretty much what I remembered. Particularly the part about
the abrupt stall and snap ending upside down or close to it and going somewhere you really hadn't planed.
They didn't want you to put any negative G on the plane, just unload it, make sure it wasn't starting to spin
and roll and pull back to level flight. The two guys I flew with were both ex navy, one was P-3 pilot
and the other flew the f-14. The P-3 guy was real laid back about stuff just patiently wait for me to
get recovered from my screw ups. We did a couple of "fights" where one of us would be in front and
try to evade the guy behind trying to shoot us then switch positions and do it again.
The second day we would start the battle going head on at 10,000 feet and pass each other so the opponent
was to our left with about 500 feet between the two planes, fight started when we past each other.
I think our minimum altitude was 6000 feet and if both the instructor and student lost sight of the
other aircraft and they weren't in a dominant position to shoot us there was a time out called to get reset.
A couple of times I had the guy and got greedy trying to rush it and ended up practicing my half snap
off into BFE.
It was done for fun but I also learned a bunch about those airplanes in just two days.
We were not allowed ( at least I wasn't ) to try landings. I did get coached through a couple
of take offs and was allowed to taxi it.....slowly!